# Was there always this much comedy in U.S. politics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 17, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355 "2012-11-17T22:52:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/1 "2012-11-17T22:52:42Z")
I enjoy a good put-down of an opponent as much as the next person, but these days I sometimes feel like we’re in the court of Louis XIV where the ability to deliver a good zinger is a game-changer, if not the most important thing on earth. I get the feeling that Andrew Dice Clay and John Belushi would have become very influential political “pundits” instead of comedians if they had started out a couple of decades later. Although I appreciate the entertainment factor, I’d like to see this balanced out with some more seriously written and lengthy pieces by good journalists, which seem to be getting more difficult to find. I personally found [this Romney piece](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829) in Rolling Stone (of all places) to be more devastating than all the hit & run zingers on both sides. Am I on to something or just lacking perspective? ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/2 "2012-11-17T23:07:45Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Although I appreciate the entertainment factor, I’d like to see this balanced out with some more seriously written and lengthy pieces by good journalists, which seem to be getting more difficult to find. I personally found [this Romney piece](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829) in Rolling Stone (of all places) to be more devastating than all the hit & run zingers on both sides. > > Am I on to something or just lacking perspective? Probably lacking perspective. I found the Matt Taibbi piece pretty devastating too even though there wasn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that I’d have voted for Romney even before I read it. But how many other people do you think actually read it? Good zingers and sound bites are the rule of the land how. Anyone who attempts to actually explain things risks being labeled ‘borrrrrring’. Look how well Obama did in the first debate where he discussed issues and explained policies. Fortunately, you can still find seriously written and well researched pieces, but you have to look for them. Most people can’t be bothered. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/3 "2012-11-17T23:08:58Z")
I can’t really compare the present era to others, but I think hard-hitting political satire is one of America’s proudest traditions. And the Taibbi piece is devastating. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/4 "2012-11-17T23:09:53Z")
In terms of real comedy… Yes! We rejoice in The Capitol Steps, and fondly remember Tom Lehrer, but you can go back to the beginning, and American satirical political songs have been with us. Heck, they go back well before the origin of the U.S. May I recommend “Hail to the Chief,” a collection of American political music, performed by the Chestnut Brass Company and friends? Amazon’s got it. Charming stuff; the art of biting political satire – and some inspirational, patriotic music too. “If I had thought that I had got one drop of Democrat blood… My jugular vein I’d cut in twain and spill the filthy flood…” Ah! Tradition! ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/5 "2012-11-17T23:54:33Z")
[“Ma! Ma! Where’s my Pa?” “Gone to the White House, haw haw haw!”]([Grover Cleveland - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Cleveland)) No? Not a chuckle? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/6 "2012-11-18T00:31:28Z")
18th century British, not U.S., but [Samuel Foote](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Foote) reputedly got off a real zinger against [John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Montagu,_4th_Earl_of_Sandwich#Personal_life): > [@](#): > > “Foote, I have often wondered what catastrophe would bring you to your end; but I think, that you must either die of the pox, or the halter.” (That is, of syphillis or being hanged.) > > “My lord, that will depend upon one of two contingencies; – whether I embrace your lordship’s mistress, or your lordship’s principles.” And note that politicians being (literally) in bed with celebrities goes back to at least that far as well. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/7 "2012-11-18T01:46:54Z")
Rolling Stone. The magazine that published Hunter Thompson’s series Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail and also Timothy Crouse’s takedown of the press corps, The Boys on the Bus, both in 1972. Nothing published in the magazine today comes within miles of those for comedy. Will Rogers said millions of funny things about politics, including the immortal line, “I’m not a member of any organized political party, I’m a Democrat!” That was back in 1935. Finley Peter Dunne wrote scores of stories about Mr. Dooley, an Irish immigrant who commented about the nation scene in dialect. His most famous line, from a 1901 book, is that the Supreme Court “follows th’ iliction returns.” Politics always has been a gold mine for comedy. It goes all the way back. It’s never not been there. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/8 "2012-11-18T02:26:47Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Politics always has been a gold mine for comedy. It goes all the way back. It’s never not been there. While I heartily concur that it goes all the way back, lately it appears we have hit the mother lode. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/9 "2012-11-18T07:30:11Z")
When I think of comedy in politics, the first person who comes to mind is Mark Twain. “Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.” This [HuffPo](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rosemarie-ostler/political-insults-_b_947019.html#s348999&title=Francomaniac) article has some great examples of comic political putdowns. > [@](#): > > [His opponent’s supporters] questioned [Franklin] Pierce’s record, mockingly nicknaming him the Fainting General because he once fainted during battle and had to be carried off the field. The Whigs implied that he passed out from cowardice, ignoring the fact that his leg was severely injured. They drove home their point by publishing a one-inch-high book titled “The Military Service of General Pierce.” ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/10 "2012-11-18T15:56:54Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > This [HuffPo](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rosemarie-ostler/political-insults-_b_947019.html#s348999&title=Francomaniac) article has some great examples of comic political putdowns. Wow, swiftboating 19th century style. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/11 "2012-11-18T16:52:28Z")
The modern era of political comedy began on November 28, 1962. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/12 "2012-11-18T17:22:23Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Rolling Stone. The magazine that published Hunter Thompson’s series Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail and also Timothy Crouse’s takedown of the press corps, The Boys on the Bus, both in 1972. Nothing published in the magazine today comes within miles of those for comedy. Ah, yes . . . Hunter S. Thompson . . . > [@](#): > > There is almost a Yin/Yang clarity in the difference between the two men [Nixon and McGovern], a contrast so stark that it would be hard to find any two better models in the national politics arena for the legendary duality – the congenital Split Personality and polarized instincts – that almost everybody except Americans has long since taken for granted as the key to our National Character. This was not what Nixon had in mind when he said, last August, that the 1972 presidential election would offer voters “the clearest choice of this century,” but on a level he will never understand he was probably right . . . and it is Nixon himself who represents that dark, venal, and incurably violent side of the American character almost every other country in the world has learned to fear and despise. Our Barbie doll president, with his Barbie doll wife and his box-full of Barbie doll children is also America’s answer to the monstrous Mr. Hyde. He speaks for the Werewolf in us; the bully, the predatory shyster who turns into something unspeakable, full of claws and bleeding string-warts, on nights when the moon comes too close . .. > > At the stroke of midnight in Washington, a drooling red-eyed beast with the legs of a man and the head of a giant hyena crawls out of its bedroom window in the South Wing of the White House and leaps fifty feet down to the lawn . . . pauses briefly to strangle the Chow watchdog, then races off into the darkness . . . towards the Watergate, snarling with lust, loping through the alleys behind Pennsylvania Avenue, and trying desperately to remember which one of those four hundred identical balconies is the one outside Martha Mitchell’s apartment . . . When will we see his like again?! ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/13 "2012-11-18T17:50:44Z")
Here’s something I’m tired of seeing: “Satire doesn’t stand a chance against reality anymore.” Jules Feiffer made that remark in 1959 and I’m sure it was already trite. If I never see that imbecilic and erroneous sentiment expressed again I’ll be fine with that. > [@Trinopus](#): > > In terms of real comedy… Yes! We rejoice in The Capitol Steps, and fondly remember Tom Lehrer Tom Lehrer isn’t dead. I mean, we do fondly remember him, but I believe he’s still performing, and he’s certainly still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/14 "2012-11-18T18:05:16Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Am I on to something or just lacking perspective? I’d suggest the latter if you consider [Aristophanes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristophanes) and the other Greek comedians. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/15 "2012-11-18T19:14:28Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > Here’s something I’m tired of seeing: “Satire doesn’t stand a chance against reality anymore.” Jules Feiffer made that remark in 1959 and I’m sure it was already trite. If I never see that imbecilic and erroneous sentiment expressed again I’ll be fine with that. > Tom Lehrer isn’t dead. I mean, we do fondly remember him, but I believe he’s still performing, and he’s certainly still alive. You meant the Tom Lehrer who said that awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to Henry Kissinger in 1973 made political satire obsolete? The Tom Lehrer who had already stopped creating new satiric songs several years before that? The Tom Lehrer who is 84 and most definitely not still performing? He did two performances in 1998; other than that he hasn’t performed since, hmmm, 1973. The sentiment may be untrue, but Lehrer is the worst possible example to refute it. It’s obviously true, though, that some people are so attuned to their times that they can’t adapt their satire when the world changes. All of Feiffer’s best work was behind him in 1959. Hunter Thompson is another good example of not changing with the times. Mort Sahl was never the same after the Kennedy assassination. When they say that political satire is dead, they mean it’s dead for them. And that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/16 "2012-11-19T06:45:12Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Mort Sahl was never the same after the Kennedy assassination. [Vaughn Meader](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaughn_Meader) didn’t do so well after that either. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/17 "2012-11-19T06:52:06Z")
Jon Stewart owes a great debt to Mark Twain in terms of the legacy of American political satire. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/18 "2012-11-19T08:25:49Z")
Tom Lehrer endorsed [Roy Zimmerman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn2D5Ol9uPM&playnext=1&list=PL6F6D0AAAC2A3B839&feature=results_main), if you’re interested. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/19 "2012-11-19T17:48:01Z")
[Thomas Nast cartoons.](http://cartoons.osu.edu/nast/keller_web.htm) Classic! ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355/20 "2012-11-19T18:32:47Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The sentiment may be untrue, but Lehrer is the worst possible example to refute it. I was wrong about him no longer performing, but I was right about him still being alive. But my mentioning Lehrer had nothing to do with the Feiffer quote, which was, perhaps, true of Feiffer. But I see it all the time; the one time it had any merit, however small, was the _Onion_ article on the election of Schwarzenegger (in which it was implicit but not stated). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-always-this-much-comedy-in-u-s-politics/641355.md?page=2)