# Was there ever a time when you didn’t know the following: When you make a right turn at a red light, you have to come to a complete stop first **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 2, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500 "2021-06-02T20:57:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/41 "2021-06-04T00:47:30Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > How many places is that legal? I know it was in Iowa back in the early '80s (but don’t know if it still is). Legal in 38 states, as of the end of 2018, according to Wikipedia, plus, apparently, an additional five states that allow a left on red into a one-way street from a two-way street. > **[Turn on red | Left turn on red](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red#Left_turn_on_red)** > > In the U.S., 38 states allow left turns on red only if both the origin and destination streets are one way as of December, 2018. > Five states, namely Alaska, Idaho, Michigan, Oregon, and Washington allow left turns on red into a one-way street, even from a two-way. > As of December 2018, the following states and territories ban left turns on red: Connecticut, Maine, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Rhode Island, South Dakota (unless permitted by local ordinance), the District o... ---
**Author:** ![Jumpbass](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jumpbass/32/147_2.png) [@Jumpbass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jumpbass)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/42 "2021-06-04T13:55:44Z")
> [@Enjoy\_Slurm](#): > > Well, those cops lied or they do not know the law. > > As I was taught in Driver’s Ed, in California, you may turn right only from the right most lane into the right most lane. I figured we should go to the source, so I found the [CA Vehicle Code](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=21453.). It says nothing about being in the lane closest to the curb. That’s in the Driver’s Ed handbook, not the vehicle code. I used to be a driving instructor, but I never had to address that sort of a right hand turn. Besides, we had to teach to the handbook, so the students would pass their driving test. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/43 "2021-06-04T14:04:35Z")
Just when my father was teaching me to drive and I didn’t. Dad: “You didn’t stop there.” Me: “Nobody was coming.” Dad: “_It’s still a red light_.” I still hear him saying that in my head every time I do it. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/44 "2021-06-04T18:07:47Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > it seems like a lot of cyclists in my state(New Hampshire) are not aware that they are supposed to obey stop signs and red lights as well and come to a complete stop. And not just drive through them even when making a right turn. That’s a much more generous interpretation than my own, which is they know and figure they can get away with it. Despite seeing dozens of bikers doing both, I’ve never seen one stopped by a cop, so it seems that assumption is largely correct. As someone who grew up in New Hampshire, I can relay that kids are taught that bikes have to obey lights and signs in school, so natives and those of us who have lived here since early childhood have no excuse for not knowing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/45 "2021-06-04T18:26:47Z")
Yes, in CA we have what is called a “Free right turn” or as you call it a _protected right turn_, which is where the RT has it’s own lane for at least a while and a separate curb with a cut out for the RT. Then, you do not stop. ---
**Author:** ![Ranch\_Dip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranch_dip/32/5238_2.png) [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/46 "2021-06-04T19:17:33Z")
Personally, I knew it in utero. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/47 "2021-06-04T20:01:55Z")
I can’t remember seeing cyclists stopped by cops for _anything_. Also in the past month I have noticed cyclists traveling on the wrong side of the road as well. They are supposed to be traveling with the flow of traffic–going in the same direction as motor vehicles. At least 4 times I seen bikes traveling on other side into oncoming traffic almost. I live in a fairly rural area so it is probably not a high priority for the police but a lot of the country roads are tree covered and curvy and cars coming down might not seem them in time to swerve. And don’t even get me started ranting about all the idiots walking or biking along the roads at night in dark clothing who can barely see until they are almost in front of you. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/48 "2021-06-05T06:06:20Z")
Right on Red was prohibited everywhere until I was an adult driver, and still is prohibited in Montreal. It was banned in all of Quebec until a decade or so ago. Since 2016, not allowed any more in Mexico City. I was in my 30s when the practice was first starter, around 1970., as a fuel-saving measure. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/49 "2021-06-05T06:45:17Z")
> [@Jumpbass](#): > > I figured we should go to the source, so I found the [CA Vehicle Code](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=21453.). > > It says nothing about being in the lane closest to the curb. That’s in the Driver’s Ed handbook, not the vehicle code. I used to be a driving instructor, but I never had to address that sort of a right hand turn. Besides, we had to teach to the handbook, so the students would pass their driving test. I’m not sure everyone is talking about the same thing. In a road with two right turn lanes, if you are in the rightmost one, you have to turn into the rightmost lane of the cross street. If you are in the other one, you have to turn into not the rightmost lane of the cross street. (I know of no cases where two right turn lanes go into a single lane of traffic. The freeway exit ramp near my house is like this, and I almost use the left right turn lane and turn into the left lane of the cross street. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpbass](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jumpbass/32/147_2.png) [@Jumpbass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jumpbass)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/50 "2021-06-05T18:02:30Z")
Yup. I think that’s what I’m talking about. The vehicle code doesn’t address it. It just sys you have to stop and go when safe. It doesn’t require you to be in the the right side right hand turn lane to turn on a red light. Damn, this is confusing to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/51 "2021-06-05T23:53:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I had trouble as a beginning driver. I got drivers behind me upset because I waited for the light. It took me awhile to remember right on red. > [@dtilque](#): > > It’s not required that you take a right on red if available. Those drivers were being rude, assuming they honked at you. I once had the person behind me honk for about 30 seconds straight trying to get me to turn right on red. I refused to do so because the person in the late to my left had pulled forward about 1/4 of the way into the lane of oncoming traffic and I couldn’t see around them. I refused to pull forward any further. IMHO the problem is that there are just way to many asshole drivers out there. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/52 "2021-06-06T02:27:54Z")
> [@Jumpbass](#): > > It says nothing about being in the lane closest to the curb. That’s in the Driver’s Ed handbook, not the vehicle code. I used to be a driving instructor, but I never had to address that sort of a right hand turn. Besides, we had to teach to the handbook, so the students would pass their driving test. Last time I looked, the Handbook explicitly mentions that it is NOT the official law, and that courts will follow the law and not the handbook wherever there is a discrepancy. Thanks, Handbook authors, for writing a document that we all use for learning to drive, that you won’t stand by. Another mini-rant about the Handbook: IIRC, when I learned to drive circa 1968, every law discussed in the Handbook included a cite to the actual law in the Vehicle Code. It no longer has that. So fuck the Handbook and its authors, as far as I am concerned. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, in CA we have what is called a “Free right turn” or as you call it a _protected right turn_ , which is where the RT has it’s own lane for at least a while and a separate curb with a cut out for the RT. I’m not sure we all agree on what a “protected right turn”, or protected anything, is. As I understand it, the term “protected” regarding any motion a driver might make at an intersection, means you have a light facing you that says you can do it AND all other drivers approaching the intersection that might conflict with your motion are stopped by red light. Thus, for example, you can generally make a left turn when you have a green light as long as there are no oncoming cars, and that’s NOT a protected left turn. But if you have a green left arrow, that means that opposing traffic and cross traffic all have red lights so you can blithely make your left turn. That’s a “protected” left. Similarly with green arrows pointing right: That means cross traffic from the left is stopped so you can make your right turn immediately. ETA: There are those new-ish left-turn rules that I don’t think we have in California yet: A left green arrow is a “protected left” (that much we’ve had for years), while a flashing yellow left arrow is an “unprotected left” (meaning you can turn left when there’s no opposing traffic). At least, I think that’s how it works. I’ve seen them in Oregon and Nevada. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/53 "2021-06-06T02:58:38Z")
The vehicle code and the handbook both address ALL turns. Unless specifically excepted, those rules would govern permitted turns when a red light is showing. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/54 "2021-06-06T04:11:18Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > ETA: There are those new-ish left-turn rules that I don’t think we have in California yet: A left green arrow is a “protected left” (that much we’ve had for years), while a flashing yellow left arrow is an “unprotected left” (meaning you can turn left when there’s no opposing traffic). At least, I think that’s how it works. I’ve seen them in Oregon and Nevada Yes, we have those in Oregon. The county I’m in (Washington County) was one of the first in the country to get them and most intersections have it. But most only have it for two directions. Not sure why, but I don’t think it’s because the traffic lights can’t be programmed to do it for all four. There’s a few intersections that do have it for all four directions. One thing to note is you won’t get the flashing yellow arrow when the crosswalk signal is on. When they first put it in, that wasn’t the case and they had lots of pedestrian accidents/near accidents. So they had to reprogram the lights. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2021, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/55 "2021-06-06T11:53:21Z")
As a legally-blind pedestrian, I never cross near a controlled intersection. They scare the shit out of me. I walk far enough up the street until I have a full view of the traffic coming in the lane I am about to cross, from only one direction… ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/56 "2021-08-21T19:01:59Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > I can’t remember seeing cyclists stopped by cops for _anything_ . (12 weeks later) I had a coworker who got a ticket for _speeding_ on his bicycle, 45 in a 35 zone, the radar said. He figured the cop had tagged somebody in an auto going the other way. He went to court and told the judge, “Your honor, if I could pedal a bike at 45mph, I’d be in the Olympics!” The ticket got tossed. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/57 "2021-08-21T20:14:46Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > or left on red from one way to one way streets - public service announcement: also legal). Not everywhere even in the US. [Connecticut](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut), [Maine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine), [Missouri](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri), [New Hampshire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire), [New Jersey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey), [North Carolina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina), [South Dakota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota) (unless permitted by local ordinance), the [District of Columbia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia), and [Guam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guam).[[17]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red#cite_note-:0-17) [New York City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City) prohibits left turn on red unless a sign indicates otherwise [from Wikipedia]. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/58 "2021-08-21T20:58:31Z")
One time, my father thought he could make a LEFT turn on red. That was the last time he was allowed to drive, before his Alzheimers diagnosis. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500/59 "2021-08-21T21:16:12Z")
This was drilled into me in Driver’s Ed. But I think someone has neglected to inform the drivers here in Hawaii. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-a-time-when-you-didn-t-know-the-following-when-you-make-a-right-turn-at-a-red-light-you-have-to-come-to-a-complete-stop-first/943500.md?page=2)