# Was There Ever Really Such a Thing as 'Sanctuary'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 16, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109 "2004-12-16T05:57:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/1 "2004-12-16T05:57:32Z")
We all remember the scene from _Hunchback of Notre Dame_. Quasimodo snatches the gypsy princess, carries her off to the church, then holding her body aloft, cries “Sa-a-a-a-anctuary-y-y-y!!! Sa-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-anctuary-y-y-y!!!” to the delight of the crowd in Paris (you’ll have to bear with me, it’s been a while since I actually saw the movie 😉 ). But was there ever **really** such a thing as sanctuary in a church? If there was, was it established by the church, like sacraments, or was it established by the civil authorities? And also interestingly, does anyone know if there is **still** such a thing as sanctuary in a church? And if so _where_ and _how_? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rex_fenestrarum/32/7265_2.png) [@Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rex_Fenestrarum)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/2 "2004-12-16T07:36:03Z")
I believe there was, but I just wanted to say that “sacraments” weren’t _established_ by the Church, but by God. In the Roman Catholic Church there are seven sacraments, but in the Anglican church there are only two sacraments and five “sacramental rites”, as Jesus only directly commanded us to have those two. I just wanted to throw that out before someone took offense. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/3 "2004-12-16T11:18:50Z")
Yes it was true, at least in England, though limited in scope. Here are some examples [http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1491/murder.html](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1491/murder.html) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/4 "2004-12-16T11:22:07Z")
Technically it still exists. That’s why the US isn’t (intentionally) bombing every mosque in Iraq, **unless** fighters are using it as a battle zone to shoot at Coalition forces. At that point the holiness of the structure is treated as any other dwelling containing hostile forces. ---
**Author:** ![oh\_s](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b38774/32.png) [@oh\_s](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oh_s)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/5 "2004-12-16T11:36:04Z")
But was there ever **really** such a thing as sanctuary in a church? If there ``` A lot of my relo's hid in them during the last war, but the fruitckes of today don't give a shite. I honestly don't know. By todays standards I'd do better standing in the middle of the street. ``` ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/6 "2004-12-16T12:53:51Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Technically it still exists. That’s why the US isn’t (intentionally) bombing every mosque in Iraq, **unless** fighters are using it as a battle zone to shoot at Coalition forces. At that point the holiness of the structure is treated as any other dwelling containing hostile forces. That’s because the Geneva Conventions protect holy sites unless they’re being used as bases. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/7 "2004-12-16T13:49:11Z")
It’s in essence the same as Sanctuary. That was the point. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/8 "2004-12-16T14:41:53Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > It’s in essence the same as Sanctuary. That was the point. No, it’s entirely different. Sanctuary was protection offered by the church for people who, in their opinion, were being unjustly persecuted by the local authorities. It was just as often used for reasons of corruption and other nefarious purposes, of course, and was often backed up by the Vatican. The reluctance to blow up mosques in Iraq has nothing to do with protecting criminals, but has to do with the rights of non-combatants in a war-zone. It would be my guess that a large number of Iraqi clergy are not willing participants in the insurgents’ seizure of mosques, either. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/9 "2004-12-16T14:53:07Z")
> [@oh&s](#): > > But was there ever **really** such a thing as sanctuary in a church? If there > > ``` > A lot of my relo's hid in them during the last war, but the fruitckes of today don't give a shite. I honestly don't know. By todays standards I'd do better standing in the middle of the street. > > ``` That’s because by today’s legal standards no right of sanctuary exists in Australia or New Zealand. It was codified in English law from the 4th to the 17th centuries, and was abandonded before colonization of Australia. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/10 "2004-12-16T14:54:17Z")
Over the last decade, several dozen would-be refugees whose application for asylum in Norway was denied have sought sanctuary in churches to avoid deportation. The police have respected this, and never entered a church to arrest or deport anyone. Whether they were legally bound to do so or just regarded barging into a church with arrest warrants flapping as an exceptionally bad PR move, I don’t know. Is that what you’re looking for? I can be more vague if you’d like. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/11 "2004-12-16T15:03:28Z")
> [@Jim B.](#): > > We all remember the scene from _Hunchback of Notre Dame_. Quasimodo snatches the gypsy princess, carries her off to the church, then holding her body aloft, cries “Sa-a-a-a-anctuary-y-y-y!!! Sa-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-anctuary-y-y-y!!!” to the delight of the crowd in Paris (you’ll have to bear with me, it’s been a while since I actually saw the movie 😉 ). > > But was there ever **really** such a thing as sanctuary in a church? If there was, was it established by the church, like sacraments, or was it established by the civil authorities? And also interestingly, does anyone know if there is **still** such a thing as sanctuary in a church? And if so _where_ and _how_? > > 🙂 Yes, in some countries. The concept goes back to the notion that the church was autonomous from the secular rulers. The Roman Catholic leaders didn’t like the idea of the king being able to march his troops into any church on a whim. Thus churches were seen sort of like foreign embassies are today. And as in those days the people tended to have a LOT of respect for the church and its leaders, a king wouldn’t want to piss of the church leaders unless it was over something really important. And it wouldn’t be really important unless the church were harboring revolutionaries. Church leaders were smart enough generally not to do that. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-ever-really-such-a-thing-as-sanctuary/280109/12 "2004-12-16T15:35:16Z")
from Logan’s Run: “There is no Sanctuary!”