# Was there strong opposition to the UK gun bans? Could the same happen in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2008, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266 "2008-09-19T03:53:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/301 "2008-09-25T22:20:06Z")
BNP policies vary depending on which activist you speak to, and where in the country you happen to be. The official line from the main party website is rarely the one propogated on the street. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/302 "2008-09-25T22:56:50Z")
You guys are better men/women than I am. I ain’t going near the BNP page. Presumably we need the weapons to shoot brown people on sight, or something? ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/303 "2008-09-25T23:10:39Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Presumably we need the weapons to shoot brown people on sight, or something? I’m half-brown, would I just get shot in the foot or something? ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/304 "2008-09-25T23:17:41Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > you’d be voting for the BNP. > . Thus also qualifying for my dangerous nutter distinction 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/305 "2008-09-25T23:24:50Z")
[Found it](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/BNP_uk_manifesto.pdf) (PDF). Yes, that really is a link to the BBC News site. Pages 11-12, _‘The Armed People - the ultimate protection against tyranny or invasion’_, are what you’re looking for. (Doesn’t that title sound like something out of the 1930s?) ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/306 "2008-09-25T23:36:39Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > (Doesn’t that title sound like something out of the 1930s?) I just shouted it in German from a balcony… now I’m off to annexe the Sudatenland, I need more space in the living room. :eek: I blame you, GorillaMan, I blame you! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/307 "2008-09-25T23:46:04Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The only way to keep them alive is to keep shooting and/or hunting alive as a hobby. To teach future generations to shoot, and to do so safely, and to respect the rifle, and know its very important place in our country’s history. But if nobody does this - if nobody cares enough to do it - then we WILL get to the point where the nation will collectively go “meh” when some politician finally outlaws guns for good. Why would it be a problem if a thing that nobody cares about, fizzles out? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/308 "2008-09-25T23:46:30Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > If I’m perfectly honest, **Argent Towers** doesn’t exactly help his cause when he talks about liking his guns because they’re “badass”, but I certainly don’t think gun owners by and large are compensating for anything, and I wouldn’t advocate banning guns on that ground any more than I’d argue in favour of banning Ferraris. Which are, of course, badass. Well, I could have said, “aesthetically appealing and mechanically interesting” but I said “badass” instead because to me that word just means anything that I like. I like guns because I like them. Rickenbacker basses are also badass, as are tweed blazers. [QUOTE=TwistofFate] Can I recommend actually making a joke if you’re trying to be funny? [/QUOTE] We’re like 50 pages into the thread and I’m still being upbraided for that Irish shit? Fine, I’ll make a joke. Two Irishmen walk past a bar. OK, it COULD happen! ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/309 "2008-09-25T23:49:02Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > [Found it](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/BNP_uk_manifesto.pdf) (PDF). Yes, that really is a link to the BBC News site. Pages 11-12, _‘The Armed People - the ultimate protection against tyranny or invasion’_, are what you’re looking for. (Doesn’t that title sound like something out of the 1930s?) I need a shower. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/310 "2008-09-25T23:51:27Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > I’m half-brown, would I just get shot in the foot or something? Your foot could be amputated under anaesthetic, if you prefer. Just as long as you are hindered in your ability to use your half-brown skin to Destroy Traditional British Values. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/311 "2008-09-26T01:25:53Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > Checking it out. > > 1994, that would be the 10 year ban on assault-freaking-weapons correct? The one which has since expired and all attempts to replace have foundered. > > 1989 As best as i can tell from a quick google, the superceded precusror law to the now defunct above > > 1986 That would be the ban on Armor-piercing ammunition. I am a loss on this one. If you seriously think that \*Armor-piercing-ammunition \*should be readily available our world views are so far apart there’s no point in discussing it. 1986 future production of machine guns was banned in the United States, thanks Reagan. 1989 Non sporting arms were banned from importation. Thanks Bush I 1994 The new term “assault weapons” was enacted and guns were banned as a result. Sure the legislation expired, but there are at least two different versions in committee as I write this. If I am supposed to be comforted that it hasn’t passed yet, I’m not. Bottom line, three separate classes of weapons have been banned. It can and _has_ happened and it can happen again. Regarding AP ammo, essentially, all centerfire (hunting) rifles can pierce body armor, and light armor, no special ammo is required. Should they be banned next? The AP ammo ban is just more bullshit legislation attempting to make people feel good. AP ammo is still readily available by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/312 "2008-09-26T01:34:31Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Why would it be a problem if a thing that nobody cares about, fizzles out? Because _some_ people care about that particular thing, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/313 "2008-09-26T06:44:14Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Because _some_ people care about that particular thing, perhaps? If some people care, it cannot be said nobody cares. If nobody cares enough about the demise of something, nobody will mourn its loss and no harm is done. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/314 "2008-09-26T06:53:09Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > If some people care, it cannot be said nobody cares. > > If nobody cares enough about the demise of something, nobody will mourn its loss and no harm is done. The problem- at least in places like Australia and the UK- is that _most_ people don’t care about the shooting sports; which means for those of us who do it’s increasingly difficult to be given a fair hearing in relation to laws and regulations that affect our sport. There’s a difference between “no-one caring” and “the amount of effort that needs to be put in not being worth the trade-off”, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/315 "2008-09-26T08:58:40Z")
JXJohns - could you please expand on the following: “1986 future production of machine guns was banned in the United States” 1. why do you want a machine gun ??? 2. can you still import them / purchase pre-owned ones ? “1989 Non sporting arms were banned from importation.” 1. Can you buy US made ones ? “1994 The new term “assault weapons” was enacted and guns were banned as a result.” Yeh - that new term does sounds pretty silly - as many UK posters here have said. BTW - cheers for the headsup on BNP wanting to arm everyone GorillaMan. Researching into their bile is beyond the call of duty ! ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/316 "2008-09-26T10:36:48Z")
> [@sinical\_brit](#): > > JXJohns - could you please expand on the following: > > “1986 future production of machine guns was banned in the United States” > > 1. why do you want a machine gun ??? > 2. can you still import them / purchase pre-owned ones ? ! Having fired a Machine Gun (Several, actually) I can attest that they’re a lot of fun, when used safely and responsibly. Personally, I’d like one for historical reasons. Why do some people want to own sports cars? You can’t legally drive faster than 110km/h or so anyway. It’s the same principle, IMHO. My understanding is that you can’t import automatic weapons into the US, but provided you jump through an incredible amount of paperwork, live in a state where it’s legal, and get the local Sherriff/Chief Law Enforcement Officer to sign off on it, you can buy a pre-owned automatic weapon. They start at about $5,000-$10,00 and go up from there. It’s not like you can get them from Big 5 or K-mart or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/317 "2008-09-26T12:47:36Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > You lot in the US have a lot to answer for in regards to anti-gun sentiment elsewhere, I’m afraid. …and you lot in Australia have Rebecca Peters to answer for;[she’s over here now](http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=321), interfering in our business after having successfully disarmed you. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/318 "2008-09-26T13:04:09Z")
> [@sinical\_brit](#): > > JXJohns - could you please expand on the following: > > “1986 future production of machine guns was banned in the United States” > > 1. why do you want a machine gun ??? > 2. can you still import them / purchase pre-owned ones ? 1. Because I do. No other reason is necessary. Do I need to mention the analogy to a fast car, fast computer, big dog, Rolex, etc.? 2. Import, no. Purchase, sure but due to not having made in over 22 years, the prices are astronomically high. A standard evil AR-15 costs about $700. The same exact gun with a full auto capability will run a person about $15,000. So the '86 ban was a double hit. No more new weapons and effectively priced most people out of the game at the same time. A very effective ban. > [@](#): > > “1989 Non sporting arms were banned from importation.” > > 1. Can you buy US made ones ? At one time yes. However, coupled with the un mentioned ban on imported “parts kits” the supply is quickly drying up. There are several once imported guns where there are no US equivalents, the Daewoo DR200 comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/319 "2008-09-26T13:24:47Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > …and you lot in Australia have Rebecca Peters to answer for;[she’s over here now](http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=321), interfering in our business after having successfully disarmed you. I’ve never even _heard_ of this woman, so I’d love to know how she can claim she “bought a gun ban to Australia”. The gun buyback (not a ban, and I wish for smeg’s sake people in the US would get it through their thick heads that guns aren’t “banned” here) was brought about because some nutter went postal in a small town in Tasmania and unfortunately killed a lot of people. With illegally acquired guns. The Government had to be seen to be doing something, hence the legislation against self-loading centrefire rifles and pump-action shotguns. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266/320 "2008-09-26T13:44:56Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’ve never even _heard_ of this woman, so I’d love to know how she can claim she “bought a gun ban to Australia”. > > The gun buyback (not a ban, and I wish for smeg’s sake people in the US would get it through their thick heads that guns aren’t “banned” here) was brought about because some nutter went postal in a small town in Tasmania and unfortunately killed a lot of people. With illegally acquired guns. The Government had to be seen to be doing something, hence the legislation against self-loading centrefire rifles and pump-action shotguns. Please educate this thick headed American then. Tomorrow, can you go to a gun store and buy an AR-15? An AK clone? FN-FAL? Uzi carbine? UZI pistol? SIG 556? H&K SL8? Rem 870? Mossberg 500? Glock 21? If not why? If so, how and with what hoops to jump through and stipulations upon ownership. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-there-strong-opposition-to-the-uk-gun-bans-could-the-same-happen-in-the-us/464266.md?page=17)