# Was (this) inspired by (that)? Similar plots in movies/TV **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 22, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462 "2004-02-22T03:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/81 "2004-02-27T20:41:46Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > It’s been a while since I’ve seen that episode, but did he really say “24601”? No. But, I’m ashamed to admit this, I can’t remember any crew members serial numbers or security authorization codes. However, there is an episode where Ryker is being questioned by a hologram. “What’s the name of your vessel?” “The Lollypop. She’s a good ship.” ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/82 "2004-04-23T19:18:38Z")
Wagner’s **Ring Cycle** : A gold ring tempts mortals and immortals alike with the promise of absolute power, but bears a terrible curse. Includes, dwarfs, singing, and the twilight of the gods. Tolkien’s **The Lord of the Rings** : A gold ring tempts mortals and immortals alike with the promise of absolute power, but bears the taint of evil. Includes dwarves, singing, and the twilight of the elves. (Tolkien denied the rings had much in common.) Orwell’s **1984** : Sometime in the near future (relative to when the novel was written; the protagonist only guesses at the exact year) in England (Airstrip One, but the characters practice “English Socialism”), a meek, low-level employee of a monolithic government agency (Ministry of Truth) has a passionate affair and engages in acts of rebellion, leading to tragic results. Gilliam’s **Brazil** : “Somewhere in the 20th centure” (where people talk of Father Christmas and trade in pounds), a meek, low-level employee of a monolithic government agency (Ministry of Information) has a passionate affair and engages in acts of rebellion, leading to tragic results. (In interviews, Gilliam denied that Orwell was a conscious influence.) **Spartacus** is the story of a gladiator who becomes a military leader and ultimately loses his life in defiance of a Roman tyrant. In gladiator school, he meets an African who will have a powerful effect on his life. The owner of the school proves to be a more sympathetic character than we at first suspect. Noted Shakespearean actor Laurence Olivier plays a Roman senator. **Gladiator** is the story of a military leader who becomes a gladiator and ultimately loses his life in defiance of a Roman tyrant. In gladiator school, he meets an African who will have a powerful effect on his life. The owner of the school proves to be a more sympathetic character than we at first suspect. Noted Shakespearean actor Derek Jacobi plays a Roman senator. **Lost World** (1925): Huge beast (brontosaurus) brought from remote South American jungle escapes from exhibition and wreaks havoc in metropolitan London. Based on a story by Arthur Conan Doyle. Special effects by Willis O’Brien. **King Kong** (1933): Huge beast (giant ape) brought from remote island jungle escapes from exhibition and wreaks havoc in metropolitan New York. Special effects by Willis O’Brien. The subplot of the human and alien stalking each other through the corridors of the spaceship in **Dark Star** would show up again in **Alien** , which had the same screenwriter. (Although the alien in that film was scarier than a beachball with feet.) Although the setting and plot was very different, Fritz Lang’s **Metropolis** used the premise of subterranean workers and an above-ground leisure class, which had previously figured into H.G. Wells’ **The Time Machine**. The spectacular scene in the 1931 **Frankenstein** in which Dr. F uses electricity to animate his monster was not in the novel. It may have been inspired by the electrical light show in **Metropolis** that transforms a robot into the semblance of a living woman. That’s the same robot that inspired C3PO. (I think the resemblance is more striking in some of the **Star Wars** concept drawings than in the finished version.) ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/83 "2004-04-23T19:54:53Z")
**TWDuke** : _Gladiator_ stole a lot from _Spartacus_. It stole a lot more from _The Fall of the Roman Empire_. And commited most of the same historical errors. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/84 "2004-04-23T20:08:58Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > Wagner’s **Ring Cycle** : A gold ring tempts mortals and immortals alike with the promise of absolute power, but bears a terrible curse. Includes, dwarfs, singing, and the twilight of the gods. > Tolkien’s **The Lord of the Rings** : A gold ring tempts mortals and immortals alike with the promise of absolute power, but bears the taint of evil. Includes dwarves, singing, and the twilight of the elves. > > (Tolkien denied the rings had much in common. Disclaimer, though my dad is an opera lover, I can’t stand the stuff and have never managed to watch more than a minute or so of Wagner’s Ring. However, Tolkien was **not** ripping off Wagner. The Ring Cycle and much of Tolkien’s works are taken from a much earlier series of works- the poetry and prose eddas left behind by the Vikings. Wagner strung together some Norse/Germanic myths, may or may not have conflated two different tales of two different Brunhildas, and set the whole thing to music. Tolkien studied Old English. Though (there have been threads about this. I’d search and link, but either my computer or the board is wonky at the moment) the spirit and themes of LOTR are Christian, the trappings are Norse (Gandalf the grey has many obvious similarities to Odin. Aragorn reforges the broken sword of a forefather. Sigfried reforges the broken sword of his actual father. Sauron seeks to dominate the world by giving rings to various leaders. Viking leaders rewarded loyalty, and displayed their wealth, by giving rings to their followers. Viking poetry actually uses the phrase ‘ring giver’ to mean king. etc). O Brother, Where Art Thou didn’t copy The Warriors which didn’t copy James Joyce Ulysses. All three are based on an earlier work known as the Odyssey and written by a guy named Homer. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/85 "2004-04-23T21:32:21Z")
I’m a great admirer of Tolkien and didn’t mean to imply that he was deliberately ripping anyone off, but I do think there are some striking similarities beyond what can be accounted for by the common source material. There are of course lots of legendary rings magical and otherwise, but to the best of my knowledge the concept of the cursed/evil magic ring of world domination was Wagner’s invention and is not found in Norse myth. I didn’t know that about “ring-giver”, though. Besides Lord of the Rings, Sauron was once known as Lord of the Gifts. > [@](#): > > O Brother, Where Art Thou didn’t copy The Warriors which didn’t copy James Joyce Ulysses. All three are based on an earlier work known as the Odyssey and written by a guy named Homer. That wasn’t me who mentioned them, but I think you’ve been whooshed – unless this is some kind of brilliant counter-whoosh. > [@mbh](#): > > Gladiator stole a lot from Spartacus. It stole a lot more from The Fall of the Roman Empire. I did not know that. I hope to see it someday. Why, oh, why, isn’t every old movie in existence available on Region 1 DVD? ---
**Author:** ![Ross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@Ross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/86 "2004-04-23T21:50:27Z")
The Matrix bore more than superficial similarities to a New Twilight Zone episode starring Kirstie Alley, in which a woman’s enjoyable life, picnics, family etc all starts getting messed up with “glitches” until she awakens in a semi-nightmarish sci-fi future and realises she’s just been in a computer program. I think she tries to get back in and it breaks and she’s killed or something, but anyway she gets to stay in the program forever. Not unlike a certain episode of Red Dwarf, which was also pre-Matrix. However the idea is so common in sci-fi that it wasn’t until a good while after The Matrix was first released that I realised how well it had rendered the concept. On first sight it appeared to be yet more sci-fi hokum I’d seen a thousand times before. 'Course the Matrix introduced other elements to produce a relatively new flavour. Like kung fu and seriously well-cut clothes, to name but two. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/87 "2004-04-23T22:08:04Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > but to the best of my knowledge the concept of the cursed/evil magic ring of world domination was Wagner’s invention and is not found in Norse myth. According to An Introduction To Viking Mythology by John Grant (The book is accurate, detailed, but never dry or boring.) the ring in the treasure hoard is cursed. Loki gives the gold to a dwarf, Hreidmar to settle a debt. Hreidmar declares the debt settled. Loki then anounces ‘Moron! That ring is cursed!’. Hreidmar counters with ‘Curse shmurse.’ Then, his son Fafnir kills Hreidmar, drives the other son Regin into exile, lays down on the treasure and becomes a dragon. Re Odyssey Nobody said that, I was just trying to illustrate my point. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/88 "2004-04-23T22:25:36Z")
The Rock’s _The Scorpion King_ rips off _Gladiator_ pretty well. _The Talented Mister Ripley_ borrowed from Polanski’s _Noz W Wodzie_. _Reefer Madness_ was an adaptation of _The Seven Samurai_. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/89 "2004-04-23T22:57:58Z")
[Warning: major spoilers for “The Return of the King” and “Gotterdammerung”.] DocCathode, you’re either missing or ignoring a key point: > [@me](#): > > Wagner’s Ring Cycle: A gold ring tempts mortals and immortals alike with **the promise of absolute power** but bears a terrible curse. Includes, dwarfs, singing, and the twilight of the gods. > Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings: A gold ring tempts mortals and immortals alike with **the promise of absolute power** , but bears the taint of evil. Includes dwarves, singing, and the twilight of the elves. [quote] The cursed ring John Grant describes is not a _ruling_ ring. Nor did it bring about the cataclysmic end of a mythical, magical age, as did Wagner’s ring when Brunnhilde jumped with it into the flames of a funeral pyre, or Tolkien’s when Gollum fell with it into the fires of Mount Doom. > [@DocCathode](#): > > Re Odyssey > > Nobody said that, I was just trying to illustrate my point. Sorry, I thought you were responding to the previous posts on that subject. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/90 "2004-04-23T23:04:02Z")
Tarnation. The second part of that post was supposed to look like this [previous spoiler warning applies]: > [@me](#): > > There are of course lots of legendary rings magical and otherwise, but to the best of my knowledge the concept of the cursed/evil magic **ring of world domination** was Wagner’s invention and is not found in Norse myth. > [@DocCathode](#): > > According to An Introduction To Viking Mythology by John Grant (The book is accurate, detailed, but never dry or boring.) the ring in the treasure hoard is cursed. The cursed ring John Grant describes is not a _ruling_ ring. Nor did it bring about the cataclysmic end of a mythical, magical age, as did Wagner’s ring when Brunnhilde jumped with it into the flames of a funeral pyre, or Tolkien’s when Gollum fell with it into the fires of Mount Doom. > [@DocCathode](#): > > Re Odyssey > > Nobody said that, I was just trying to illustrate my point. Sorry, I thought you were responding to the previous posts on that subject. ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/91 "2004-04-23T23:40:44Z")
Here’s a pair that’s so obvious I can’t believe no one else has posted it yet: **Perry Mason** and **Law & Order**. I don’t think the creators of “Law & Order” conciously copied “Perry Mason”, but the similarities in character and plot are striking. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/92 "2004-04-24T00:13:18Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > A friend of mine in college swore she’d seen a science-fiction movie about a future society where all people over a certain age were killed… > > I still think it must have been _Logan’s Run_, though. There was a movie called, IIRC _Wild in the Streets_ where everyone over 30 is put into concentration camps. [IMDB entry.](http://imdb.com/title/tt0063808/) That might be it. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/93 "2004-04-24T02:29:34Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I can believe that Dory in _Finding Nemo_ was inspired by the common belief (popularized by Ani DiFranco) that fish have no memories. However, every time I see an ad for _50 First Dates_ I imagine a pitchman saying “It’s _The Wedding Singer_ meets _Memento_!” actually, the fish-memory thing has been part of Ellen’s stand-up for years. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/94 "2004-04-24T02:40:43Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] I’d swear that Stephen King was thinking of _Watership Down_ and _The Lord of the Rings_ when he wrote _The Stand._ QUOTE] The Randall Flagg-Mother Abigail dichotomy also gave me serious Robert Mitchum-Lillian Gish NIGHT OF THE HUNTER flashbacks. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/95 "2004-04-24T02:45:42Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I can go you one better than that: the diner scene in _Cast a Deadly Spell_ was taken from a short story called, IIRC, “Casting the Runes,” although I forget the author. QUOTE] M.R. James I believe. CtR was also the basis for the British 1950’s film Night (or Curse) of the Demon. The villianous sorcerer in the film (maybe also the story tho it wasn’t as obvious to me) was supposedly also modeled off of Aleistar Crowley. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/96 "2004-04-24T02:55:17Z")
> [@Wumpus](#): > > A Bug’s Life, Three Amigos, and Galaxy Quest are all a combination of two basic storylines. _Galaxy Quest_ is suspiciously similar to a made-for-TV movie that came out a few years earlier, called [The Adventures of Captain Zoom in Outer Space](http://imdb.com/title/tt0112292/). In both movies, aliens from a far away planet mistake Science Fiction TV shows for reality, and enlist the heroes of the show to save their planet. In Galaxy Quest, it was a Star Trek-like TV show; in Captain Zoom, it was more of a Flash Gordon type deal. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/97 "2004-04-24T02:59:13Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] > [@Fish](#): > > I’d swear that Stephen King was thinking of _Watership Down_ and _The Lord of the Rings_ when he wrote _The Stand._ > QUOTE] > AND _Night of the Hunter_… Lillian Gish as Mother Abigail & Robert Mitchum as Randall Flagg! > > Leaning, leaning… leaning on the everlasting arms! > > RE Dory in FINDING NEMO- the short-term memory of fish was part of Ellen DeG’s original standup… “Look! Cool castle!.._swims_ Look! Cool castle!.._swims_ Look! Cool castle!..” Had no idea I was posting in a revived dormant thread IN WHICH I’D ALREADY MADE THE SAME POINTS!!! That said, I challenge anyone aware of NOSFERATU not to look at the DVD box for HOUSE OF SAND & FOG from a distance & not think that it’s a remake. Btw- Kingsley & Connelly as Orlock & Mina would NOT at all be bad. Dark Shadows (show & 1st movie) was obviously Dracula-derived- Vampire, Enthralled Minion, Professorial Opponent, Girl Vamped before Vampire targets real Love Interest. ---
**Author:** ![Innanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecd19e/32.png) [@Innanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Innanna)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/98 "2004-04-24T08:02:08Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > Yes, that’s the one. And it’s probably my favourite TNG episode. I agree it is really good. So is 1984 IMO. Now it’s been a good while since I’ve read it, though, so I might be misinformed, but the specific similarity was that I think I can remember that someone in the book, under torture, is made to say that 2+2=5 or 1+1=3 or something like that. And that reminded me of the lights business. The same thing about trying to make someone say/believe something inoccuous but obviously wrong to break their spirit. But it might be a coincidence, or even worse, a well-known tactic of torturers that I’m unware of. Wilson doesn’t just have to say that 2+2=5, he has to BELIEVE it–while ALSO believing that 2+2=4 and that 2+2=(any other numbers that government says). It is not only a breaking of spirit (in that he is to give up what he knows to be true in order to conform to what the government is telling him), but also that he is not allowed to think independently. And yes, there are parallels in the Star Trek episode. Phil Farrand, who wrote the Nitpicker’s Guides has a whole discussion about this, which is pretty enlightening, or at least I thought so. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/99 "2004-04-24T18:33:01Z")
Tthe stage play and film “Bell, Book and Candle” featured a beautiful modern-day witch who falls in love with a mortal man. Hilarity, or at least whimsy, ensues. Features a supporting cast of name actors in wacky, witchy relatives. Sounds **Bewitch** ing, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462/100 "2004-04-24T19:45:58Z")
> [@AerynSun](#): > > In _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_, Season 7, when the potentials are being killed off, I believe it is the second potential who is in Germany, has pink hair, and runs for her life to the driving beat of some kind of techno music (or whatever it is those darned kids listen to these days). Is that a deliberate riff on _Run Lola Run_ or just an amazing coincidence? I think you are correct. Too much of a coincidence not to be an homage. And, another movie connection, in _Run Lola Run_ in the casino there is a portrait of a woman who looks amazingly like Madeleine from _Vertigo_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-inspired-by-that-similar-plots-in-movies-tv/230462.md?page=6)