# Was this terrifying video real or staged? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612 "2008-03-08T18:31:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/1 "2008-03-08T18:31:06Z")
This video is from 4-5 years ago when the “Bumfights” videos were popular. [Is this video real or staged?](http://www.zippyvideos.com/1314118954784346/holdinitdown/) Seems terrifyingly real, but you never can tell these days. Warning - strong language. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/2 "2008-03-08T18:46:04Z")
Strong language? Anything that resembled a word in that whole sequence that I could detect were ‘mu’ and ‘fu’. What the fu was the guy talkin… no… mumbling about??? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/3 "2008-03-09T01:09:12Z")
Is that a commercial for decaf? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/4 "2008-03-09T01:33:44Z")
I’d have run him over. The driver had the more effective weapon and ample reason to think her life was in danger. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/5 "2008-03-09T02:11:12Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] I’d have run him over. The driver had the more effective weapon and ample reason to think her life was in danger. [/QUOTE] The driver had about ten feet, at best, to get speed…in a PT Cruiser…there’s no way they’d be able to run him over, he would have plenty of time to get out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![Charger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@Charger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charger)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/6 "2008-03-09T02:47:13Z")
[QUOTE=bouv] The driver had about ten feet, at best, to get speed…in a PT Cruiser…there’s no way they’d be able to run him over, he would have plenty of time to get out of the way. [/QUOTE] There would have been room to _knock_ him over. Then wedge him between the vehicle and the pavement and push him a few feet every time he expressed more anger. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/7 "2008-03-09T06:17:15Z")
Dunno, looks real to me. The odds of finding an actor who can give a realistic performance, who has missing teeth, being allowed to bash a car in a public street (broken glass, etc.), being able to afford having multiple other cars be there with drivers, plus control of the streetlight all for the sake of getting a two minute video of a dude rambling his head off… It just seems unlikely for it to be staged. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/8 "2008-03-09T08:18:19Z")
I found the video so disturbing I googled it a bit. Found nothing, except [this guy](http://realacid.com/show.php?blog=&id=661&commentstyle=threaded) also wondering where the clip came from. That was in 2004, so the clip is at least that old. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/9 "2008-03-09T08:24:28Z")
He’s on [YouTube, too.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx-pgTu3YGY). No-one there commenting seems to know anything about where the video came from either. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/10 "2008-03-09T08:55:15Z")
Well, Wikipedia says [“Bumfights” consisted of:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumfights) > [@](#): > > Bumfights is an independent video series originally created by Indecline Films which features vagrants fighting and attempting amateur stunts in exchange for money, alcohol, and other incentives. This particular video in the series cmes from the second dvd, and is known under the nicknames “crazy ass nigga” “holding it down” and “las vegas crackhead”. That explains the shadow of the cameraman you see in this video, and the iron rod laying nearby. So yeah, staged, using/abusing real disturbed, addicted people. The guy in the video is all the more pathetic because you can see and hear he is imitating some gangsta rappers stream of profanity, complete with the head movements. Here’s rotten dot com’s take on [Bumfights.](http://www.rotten.com/library/culture/bumfights/) Truly, truly sickening and saddening. Edited: apparently, one of the bums managed to [sue](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rufus_Hannah) the filmmakers later for enough money to get out of homelessness. So at least some good came out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/11 "2008-03-09T09:08:07Z")
And for my fourth and final post in a row: [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=136851) is an SDMB discussion on the (lack of) ethics of the Bumfight series, including a link to an excellent pit-thread started by **AHunter**. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/12 "2008-03-09T13:06:01Z")
[QUOTE=bouv] The driver had about ten feet, at best, to get speed…in a PT Cruiser…there’s no way they’d be able to run him over, he would have plenty of time to get out of the way. [/QUOTE] What Charger said. I’d have pinned him to the bumper of the car in front of me. Or something. Something that played to the advantage of having a large, deadly machine at my disposal to his tire iron, or whatever that was. If he trotted in front of my car after attacking me, I’d have given him something to think about before he launched his next barrage, assuming he was in any condition to do so after I squashed him. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/13 "2008-03-09T13:26:02Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] … after I squashed him. [/QUOTE] And what would you have done, afterwards, with the cameracrew who led him into doing that and who would be happily filming you crushing him to death? ---
**Author:** ![JHWT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@JHWT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JHWT)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/14 "2008-03-09T18:06:50Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] The guy in the video is all the more pathetic because you can see and hear he is imitating some gangsta rappers stream of profanity, complete with the head movements. [/QUOTE] You’re mistaken. “Gangsta rappers” get their persona from crack heads like that bum. I’m not sure if people doubt that this video is real because it’s so raw and in your face or what, but it seems about right for a drug addicted homeless person. That’s just how junkies act in America’s rougher areas. I think this video is a lot like the marine-throws-a-puppy video, in that things like this happen all the time, but someone films it and it becomes shocking for people who have trouble comprehending a world so completely removed from their own. I think they have some other fucked up clips from the bumfights series on nothingtoxic . com (though there are a lot of _really_ fucked up videos there so search at your own risk. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/15 "2008-03-09T21:01:10Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] And what would you have done, afterwards, with the cameracrew who led him into doing that and who would be happily filming you crushing him to death? [/QUOTE] Nothing. I’d have felt completely justified in defending myself against a lunatic wielding a deadly weapon against me in a situation where there was no apparent escape, so the camera guys could do as they pleased. Maybe I’d sue them. Is that what you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/16 "2008-03-10T06:28:03Z")
Not entirely, no. First of all, an iron rod is not a deadly weapon when you’re safely inside a steel cage, aka a car. It’s a deadly weapon if you’re made of car paint, perhaps. The lunatic never made an attempt to hit or hurt the persons _inside_ the car. Of course, you could have done crushed him with the car in panic, and that would have been tragic, but understandable. But do you really think, knowing about the situation what you now know (pathetic bum jeered along by some “film makers” to damage a car in return for, perhaps, a hamburger and some attention) that crushing that same bum is ethically justified? Secondly, you could sue the cameracrew all you like. But wouldn’t you feel they would have been the real culprits, And not the sorry crackhead they picked who might never have picked up that iron rod otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/17 "2008-03-10T07:40:55Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] Not entirely, no. First of all, an iron rod is not a deadly weapon when you’re safely inside a steel cage, aka a car. It’s a deadly weapon if you’re made of car paint, perhaps. The lunatic never made an attempt to hit or hurt the persons _inside_ the car. Of course, you could have done crushed him with the car in panic, and that would have been tragic, but understandable. But do you really think, knowing about the situation what you now know (pathetic bum jeered along by some “film makers” to damage a car in return for, perhaps, a hamburger and some attention) that crushing that same bum is ethically justified? Secondly, you could sue the cameracrew all you like. But wouldn’t you feel they would have been the real culprits, And not the sorry crackhead they picked who might never have picked up that iron rod otherwise? [/QUOTE] Assuming it’s real- You really, truly think a crowbar is not a deadly weapon in every sense of the word in that scenario where he had already smashed out some of her windows? You are leaning waaay over backwards to be dismissive the deadly danger from the violently insane “sorry crackhead” in this scenario. Regardless of whether he’s getting put up to it or not does nothing,\* nothing,\* to mitigate the danger to the car passengers. You seem to think he was just “car aggressive”. Given his insane drug addled ferocity do you really imagine he would not have taken a swing at a passenger if he had the chance, or they got in his way? IIRC you’ve mentioned in other threads you’re carrying a baby right now. How would your SO feel if the “sorry crackhead” was attacking the car while you and your unborn child were inside. You’re telling me he wouldn’t be justified in thinking you were in life threatening danger and acting accordingly? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/18 "2008-03-10T10:02:11Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] Not entirely, no. First of all, an iron rod is not a deadly weapon when you’re safely inside a steel cage, aka a car. It’s a deadly weapon if you’re made of car paint, perhaps. The lunatic never made an attempt to hit or hurt the persons _inside_ the car. [/quote] What astro said. It’s a steel cage with glass windows. An iron rod is a deadly weapon for sure, and the nut smashed the windows out. Let’s not put too fine a point on this. > [@](#): > > Of course, you could have done crushed him with the car in panic, and that would have been tragic, but understandable. But do you really think, knowing about the situation what you now know (pathetic bum jeered along by some “film makers” to damage a car in return for, perhaps, a hamburger and some attention) that crushing that same bum is ethically justified? Yes, because I would prefer that I not get my skull caved in, no matter how tragic the history of the person perpetrating the unprovoked attack. I might well have felt sympathy after the fact, but would have felt no remorse for protecting myself. > [@](#): > > Secondly, you could sue the cameracrew all you like. But wouldn’t you feel they would have been the real culprits, And not the sorry crackhead they picked who might never have picked up that iron rod otherwise? They carry a great deal of responsibility. Once I extricated myself from the danger, I might well have sued them, as I said. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/19 "2008-03-10T11:43:44Z")
[QUOTE=astro] You really, truly think a crowbar is not a deadly weapon in every sense of the word in that scenario where he had already smashed out some of her windows? How would your SO feel if the “sorry crackhead” was attacking the car while you and your unborn child were inside. You’re telling me he wouldn’t be justified in thinking you were in life threatening danger and acting accordingly? [/QUOTE] Actually, I would have been pretty mad at my SO if he was in the car with me and left the safety of that steel cage to confront that maniac body to body. That’s when things could really have escalated, and then a crowbar IS a dangerous weapon. I would try to get the car out of there, FAST, and I would ram other cars to get out, if necessary; but instinctually, I wouldn’t feel threatened enough to justify to myself crushing that raving lunatic to death. Things would be different if the lunatic was carrying or firing a gun; then I would have been the first one to do the crushing. But an iron rod is simply too long to be able to get inside the car, if handled the way the crackhead did. Handled his way (hitting the car with the full length of the rod) the worst thing that could get in the car is shattered safety glass. I guess our estimate of what constitutes an deadly danger just differs. A big part of that may be that the general level of public agression and danger on the whole, in the Netherlands, is just lower then it might be in the USA. A homeless crackhead that may be carrying a gun on a Vegas parking lot, just IS a whole lot more dangerous then the same scenario on an Amsterdam parking lot. The crackhead would be a sluggish pothead, he would be guaranteed gun-less due to strict Dutch anti-gun laws, and he would be harassed not by a jeering cameracrew, but by well meaning social workers offering him jobs, subsidized housing and therapy. 🙂 And I see that both **Stratocaster** and myself agree that the cameracrew carries a LOT of the responsibility of any danger or hurt coming from their jeering. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612/20 "2008-03-10T16:08:13Z")
> [@](#): > > **Maastricht** said: > But an iron rod is simply too long to be able to get inside the car, if handled the way the crack head did. Handled his way (hitting the car with the full length of the rod) the worst thing that could get in the car is shattered safety glass. Are you seriously suggesting that this guy could not have hit the driver of the PT Cruiser with the crowbar he was using to smash the windows? He was swinging it like a bat, and could easily have smashed the driver’s skull as he did the windows. Sitting in a car with your head eight inches from a pane of glass that a crowbar wielding crazy person has been taking swings at is a position where a reasonable person would fear for his/her life. And in such a situation, the use of lethal force in self defense is completely justifiable. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-terrifying-video-real-or-staged/440612.md?page=2)