# Was this used car purchase a scam? How? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 27, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335 "2022-09-27T18:51:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/41 "2022-09-28T14:51:35Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > The Truth In Mileage Act exempts vehicles more than ten years old. A car with 300K miles likely qualifies. Valid point. But TIMA doesn’t prevent the seller from disclosing mileage, nor does it condone rolling back the odometer on an older car or misrepresenting actual mileage. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/42 "2022-09-28T18:00:41Z")
> [@a6ka97](#): > > As for calling the state police about the mileage a CarFax type document or even some service/maintenance receipts that have both theVIN and mileage would prove Amy wasn’t lying about the mileage. The only thing I can think of for Bob, is he’s an irascible paranoid A\*\*\*\*le with a hair-trigger; he wanted the car, and now that he sees a problem - mileage has been lowered, price raisedd - he assumes the original seller is in on the scam (that she found someone else to front for the vehicle sale with a bogus lowered mileage); once he’s triggered, he doesn’t listen to excuses or reason and just keeps going on and on. Hanging up on him and ignoring him is the only strategy. Yes, once the sale is complete and she is clear of whatever happens next. The only thing to be wary about is if D&D get investigated and try to use the excuse that the mileage was rolled back before they bought the car - but if there’s an ad or a notary document which can contradict this, so much the better. All Bob is going to do by going to the police is confirm her version, that the car _was_ advertised by her with the high mileage. (What the heck kind of car has 300,000 miles and is worth that much? I’m reminded when I was with my dad and his 1968 Jaguar rolled over to 0 - I asked if that was 200,000 or 300,000 and he said he couldn’t remember. Then he moved back to Toronto a while later and he could no longer license it, because a safety inspection found the underside far too badly rusted. ) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/43 "2022-09-28T19:48:03Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > (What the heck kind of car has 300,000 miles and is worth that much? I looked for used Rolls-Royce prices. Nothing I found had that many miles on it but they don’t seem to hold their value all that well. There are some used cars out there with ridiculous resale prices, but not with that many miles I’ve ever heard of. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/44 "2022-09-28T19:53:25Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Very unlikely. British Leyland no longer produced them. I’d been searching for an exhaust manifold for months. [Like this](https://mossmotors.com/exhaust-manifold-2)? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/45 "2022-09-28T20:54:06Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > What the heck kind of car has 300,000 miles and is worth that much? 2012 Toyota Camry LE with standard equipment and typical condition, 300K miles, zip code 67201 (Wichita, KS), has a [trade-in value](https://www.kbb.com/toyota/camry/2012/le-sedan-4d/?vehicleid=370424&mileage=300000&offeroptions=true&modalview=false&intent=trade-in-sell&pricetype=trade-in&condition=good&options=6514929%7ctrue) around $4800 (range $4186 to $5493) per Kelley Blue Book; the private party sales value is around $6K, so I have no problem believing a dealer might ask even more. [Here’s a similar car](https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/camry/2012/vin/4T4BF1FK7CR166441), 2012 Camry, 299,479 miles, dealer is asking $8995 in Des Moines. That’s a very popular model, holds its value well, parts readily available. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/46 "2022-09-28T21:08:14Z")
Ah thanks… I assume if you live in a place like Kansas, your daily commute could possibly be in the order of dozens of miles, not my daily 5 to 10 miles… Depending on road conditions, that highway miles could be pretty easy on a car - not like some notorious pothole cities. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/47 "2022-09-29T11:10:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Like this](https://mossmotors.com/exhaust-manifold-2)? Before the internet. I searched by driving to wrecking yards. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/48 "2022-09-29T12:08:54Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > what mileage did Amy list on the title? Did she list 300k or 150k? Or did she leave it blank for the buyer to fill in (not a good idea)? She listed the correct 300k on the title, and took photos of the dashboard and also the forms they filled out. She’s always precise and honest about such things. There isn’t anything she did wrong or that she is worried about. The only unknowns are the other people doing something illegitimate or worse. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/49 "2022-09-29T13:24:14Z")
Bob must think that the original seller is working with the scammers who bough it. Bob thinks he is doing his civil duty to catch the scam artist who is selling the exact same car and not looking for a payoff. Bob does not know that the car was sold legit and the new sellers are the scammers, but assume this is part of the original plan to sell the car, but make it look lower millage than it is. That’s what I think. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/50 "2022-09-30T21:16:46Z")
Unless this car is so old it had a mechanical odometer, 300,000 to 150,000 doesn’t make much sense. With an electronic odometer, you roll down 300,000 to 200,000 or 100,000. Unless they “rolled back” by replacing the entire instrument panel unit. Depending on exactly how it works, it might read whatever the mileage was on the car it was removed from-- probably not-- it probably gets a signal from the engine, and reads the real mileage from that engine. But it really depends on how new, and how high up the model was. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/51 "2022-10-01T00:45:01Z")
Funny - I just saw a news article about someone in Ontario who bought a used 2010 pickup truck where the mileage had been “rolled back”. The article did not go into detail - but the guy took the vehicle to his mechanic (He’d bought it “as is” uncertified) and was told the truck had well over twice the mileage he saw. So I presume that the right software can roll back the display odometer but not the underlying control computer? > **[Ontario man buys truck with odometer rolled back more than 250,000 kilometres](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-man-buys-truck-with-odometer-rolled-back-more-than-250-000-kilometres-1.5736183)** > > Because of the pandemic there has been a shortage of vehicles for sale and if you are searching for a used car, truck, or SUV be careful you don’t get one with a rolled back odometer. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/52 "2022-10-01T00:51:26Z")
FYI: Until 2006, Toyota Priuses’ odometers stopped counting at 299,999. So ‘officially’, my 2005 Prius has 299,999 miles. I called out a Mercedes SUV yesterday because his back-right brake was smoking. He said his vehicle had a million miles on it, and was ready for the junkyard. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/53 "2022-10-02T00:16:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I called out a Mercedes SUV yesterday because his back-right brake was smoking. He said his vehicle had a million miles on it, and was ready for the junkyard. Still not a good reason to boil your brake fluid, and cause a crash. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/54 "2022-10-02T00:18:06Z")
There might have been a language barrier. He sounded Eastern European. We have a lot of Russians and Ukrainians here. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/55 "2022-10-03T13:58:32Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > He said his vehicle had a million miles on it, and was ready for the junkyard. I’ve heard people say that a million times. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/56 "2022-10-03T14:54:07Z")
He said it a few times. He said he was always driving ‘between New York and Canada’. Since he was in Bellingham, I presume ‘Canada’ is British Columbia. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/57 "2022-10-03T17:38:27Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Unless this car is so old it had a mechanical odometer, 300,000 to 150,000 doesn’t make much sense. With an electronic odometer, you roll down 300,000 to 200,000 or 100,000. > > Unless they “rolled back” by replacing the entire instrument panel unit. Depending on exactly how it works, it might read whatever the mileage was on the car it was removed from-- probably not-- it probably gets a signal from the engine, and reads the real mileage from that engine. But it really depends on how new, and how high up the model was. On a car with an electronic odometer, could you “roll back” the odometer by disabling portions of the display? Here’s a classic 7-segment display: [![](https://electronics-fun.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Seven-segment-display.png) ](https://electronics-fun.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Seven-segment-display.png) If you could somehow cut the leads to the three horizontal segments (a, g, and d) a ‘3’ would look like a ‘1’. I have no idea how hard that would be, or if anything in the hardware or software would prevent it. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/58 "2022-10-03T17:53:55Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > On a car with an electronic odometer, could you “roll back” the odometer by disabling portions of the display Electronic odometers are rolled back with software. There is legitimate software that can do it, for example to set the mileage when a new instrument cluster is installed in a car. There is also illicit software that can do it. Supposedly rolling back odometers is very easy now, because once somebody has the software, either by misusing legitimate software from a dealer or licensed repair shop, or obtaining illicit software, all that’s necessary is attaching a computer to the car, and issuing a command. Rolling back being easy is at least what places like Carfax would like you to believe, because they make their money by getting people to buy reports on cars. One of the things those reports will show is if there is any discrepancy in the displayed mileage and recorded mileage when the car was in for service. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/59 "2022-10-03T21:01:19Z")
Yes, usually the 7-segment displays are self-contained chips; in fact, nowadays I think they are multi-digit units with a serial line to feed the digits sequentially. So it would be hard to alter the display by disabling individual bars without some serious surgery. I wondered how the mechanic could precisely tell the real mileage on the car - is there a separate bit in the car computer that cannot be altered by software that may not get transferred to the display odometer, or a log that records when odometer is altered, or did he look up the last service record? The news article doesn’t really say. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335/60 "2022-10-03T21:13:18Z")
I remember reading 20 odd years ago that Dodge Vipers recorded mileage independently in the ECU and the digital odometer display. It was easy to disconnect or replace the odometer but few knew to replace the ECU, which would show the right mileage with the correct scanner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-used-car-purchase-a-scam-how/972335.md?page=4)