# Was this (white) woman acting in a unreasonable/racist fashion n this situation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834 "2013-08-09T20:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/81 "2013-08-10T17:10:45Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > How freaked is a little freaked? > > Look at it this way. Let’s consider the four actions she did to express fear: > > 1. Turning around hastily the first time she saw me, when I smiled at her. > 2. Quickening her step when she saw me behind her the second time (after I presumably had seemed to disappear, from her POV). > 3. Abandoning her shopping and fleeing when she saw me in the Walgreens. > 4. Flinching and screaming when she saw me at the elevator a day and a half later. > > Which of those would you NOT have done? > > Incidentally, I don’t think she was being racist necessarily, and I think I made a mistake in how I handled things. Smiling at her, in particular, was an error. I was trying to be reassuring, but I can easily understand how she read it as “expressing sexual interest in creepy way” and next thought, “Damn, I wish cell phones were ubiquitous already, or that I lived in Metropolis.” I would probably have done #1 and #2. I would not have done #3: if I was wondering whether you were stalking me, I would have hung around in that store, where it was brightly lit and there were other people, until you left. As for #4, I think it would have become immediately obvious to me that you lived there, in kind of a :smack: moment, and I would have either smiled and then ignored you (like I do with everybody else in elevators) or made some comment like “Huh, we meet again.” ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/82 "2013-08-10T17:22:05Z")
> [@Zjestika](#): > > I’ve stopped to let men pass me, one time in particular it was midnight and a young black man was about 50 feet behind me. It had nothing to do with the fact that he was black- it was night, he was too close. I didn’t even really get a scary vibe from him, it was just really disconcerting to have someone that close behind me in the dark. I’m pretty sure he thought I was being racist, and I feel bad for that. Very nice post. If he felt you were racist that is something that he needs to learn not to assume, your behavior was fine. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/83 "2013-08-10T17:35:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **WhyNot** (and echoed by others): > > Where I’d differ is the last reaction (the elevator one.) At that point, I’m bright enough to figure out that you probably live here too, and I’d laugh my ass off at a sudden awareness of the misplacedness of my fear and, if you’re cute enough, invite you out to coffee. Sure, most of us would figure it out, but how quickly? It’s not like she stopped and thought out all the implications, and then made the rational decision to scream. She all of a sudden saw a scary-looking guy who had badly frightened her a couple of days previously and whom she had no expectation to see in that context, and so she screamed by reflex. And, y’know, that’s not actually a bad reflex to have: If **Skald** really had been dangerous to her, she might not have had time to stop and think before he grabbed her and covered her mouth or something. Now, after the scream, she might have realized “Hey, wait a minute…”, and by then her companion in the elevator was reassuring her, but the scream was already out by then. And to add to the mitigating factors others have mentioned, **Skald** said in the OP that she had just moved in to his building. Which means that, on top of all the other little things that added up for her, she was also in an unfamiliar neighborhood. Also note that her responses escalated with the situation: See a scary-looking guy at first, OK, probably not a problem, but take a different route just in case. See him again, pick up pace, and head into a public place. See him a third time (ohmygod, he really is following me!), drop everything and run (which as others have pointed out, was not the best decision in context, but again, quick reflex before slow deliberation). See him a _fourth_ time, scream. Also note: I’m not referring to **Skald** as scary-looking because he’s black, or even just because he’s big. I’m calling him scary-looking because according to him, even people who know him and are objectively not threatened by him think he looks like an educated thug. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/84 "2013-08-10T17:51:03Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Yes, exactly. How do we, as a society, balance these disparate rights? I don’t see the clashing rights. The woman does have a right to be wary of strangers at night when she’s alone. But Skald does not have the right to walk in his neighborhood without being treated like a criminal – as long as the being treated like a criminal does not physically involve him. And since her actions were entirely reactions that only involved herself then she can do whatever she wants without impinging his or anybody’s else rights. It would of course have been otherwise if she had called the cops or sprayed mace on him or something. Incidentally I think it is part of every grown man’s experience to once in a while cross the street, go into a shop to buy something you don’t need, or whatever, in order to not be seen as threatening or stalking women. Btw. did you talk to her afterwards Skald? When things had been settled. That could have been a fun conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/85 "2013-08-10T18:28:46Z")
> [@Monstera\_deliciosa](#): > > Actually he does. The book is not about walking around being fearful all the time; it is about paying attention to your fears when they occur. It is also about not letting one particular fear, that of not being thought of as a “nice” person, cloud your judgment in a bad situation. Right. For those who haven’t read it, De Becker draws a distinction between _fear_, which he describes as an immediate response to something in the present environment that is useful as a warning that something may be wrong, and _anxiety_, which is a more generalized feeling of worry that something bad might happen. He gives the example of a woman who said she was always afraid to walk out to her car after working late, but couldn’t describe anything about the parking lot at night that had ever seemed particularly frightening. De Becker says being “always afraid” like this is anxiety, not fear, and that anxiety isn’t going to do you any good in a crisis and may actually distract you from real signs of danger. IIRC the “pay attention to your fear” message is mostly just the beginning of the book anyway. Much of the rest is about specific red flags to watch out for and what to do when you are in a situation with someone who may be dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/86 "2013-08-10T18:38:28Z")
I think any time we percieve a threat or even the possibility of a threat a lot of our primal instincts start to kick in. Even in animals, if a lion for instance is a safe distance from a heard the heard remains aware of it but largely ignores it. If the lion stands up the animals may tense up telling the lion they are aware, he sees this and may lie back down where upon all are satisfied they have successfully communicated. ``` I believe we also send signals back and forth in the street, if we for somereason don't like the signal we are getting back it can trigger a reaction. ``` ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/87 "2013-08-10T20:09:57Z")
When I put on my real life clothes, Santa Suit, Even the little kids like me. When I am tweaking the population in my biker duds, Most men leave me alone & women show some fear or wariness. When I hang my vest over the front of my chopper, it is always where I left it. I’ll be 70 next month & age has not mitigated these effects. As a pilot, if you just have wariness, you need to rethink. Without fear, your mind may cause you to go to places the airplane & passenger, if any, will not survive. Only when all things inside the box have been tried and failed do you then go outside the box in desperation. Sometimes that actually works. The point is that rational thought will be too late when you should have reacted with fright or fear. There is no perfect formula. Wariness is less than fear. Fear requires time & thought. Fright is instant and even the most thinking and practiced person can be frightened. A person goes down the street that already cause at least wariness because it is historically dangerous for a zillion reasons. Hears someone behind them and thinks & then becomes fearful. Then that very person appears in front of them & way too close = fright. ( Fright is faster than thinking. ) Even a known danger, like losing an engine on takeoff, which is practiced until you react almost automatically, without time for fear still has an instant of panic at the very start because IMO because that is what fires the automatic part of the recovery process. My wife, wither alone or with me is never fearful, but she is habitually situationally aware, it is a habit, not living in constant fear. Because fear requires time & thinking, it can be mitigated a lot with knowledge. The woman in the example was aware, & properly fearful, but had no training or knowledge of what responses that could reduce her fear with thought. Fright was in more control than rational thought. The elevator deal was pure fright. I have had people cause me to uneasy, fearful and frightened. If one who had cause uneasiness much less fear popped up right in from of me, inside my space, when I was not ready, first comes, fright, second reaction, after they were no longer any possible threat to me, then would come thought. Fear may or may not come at all. I live in a way where I know that anyone who can frighten me requires an immediate reaction. The thinking has already been done. Just like losing an engine on takeoff. So I do not have to worry with it. When you do things where you can not pass the buck, flying ,soccer referee, solo sailing, solo extreme anything, ( where you can not ask for a second opinion, ( many people are not suited to living under those conditions ) to survive you need to have a lot of plans ready for instant activation all the time. Most people do not live that way, most live very ordinary lives that do not prepare them. Reading a book does not do much good without real time practice. So: Big guys of any color, are always going to cause, fear or fright in those of lesser power in many situations, Lone woman in the dark with possible, no matter how remotely likely, danger is going to react similar to what this person did. Looks as perceived, location, race, sex, all personal experiences, will determine, wariness, fear & fright levels. I am as un-racist as I can be, pretty good but not 100%, do not do stupid things in neighborhoods of Asians, Poles, Irish, Blacks, Jamaicans, Laotians, or old people who have 911 on speed dial. I am 6’4"+ and north of 350#. I look scary or mean to most. I ma really Santa but without my suit, I am vilified most of the time. I try to remember that people are people and do as I should most times, but I too make wrong judgements about a lot of things, fear & fright by others & I sometimes get it wrong I feel that, sex, size, race, personal fears, plus things she had heard, etc. even if she had not had any personal problems, all combined at once were what set her off. IMO of course. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/88 "2013-08-11T03:56:34Z")
Her reactions were probably colored by her own experiences and what she heard and saw over the airwaves. People who have been mugged or subjected to other kinds of violent crime would probably be hypersensitive to situations like these. What might say more about her is whether she continued to behave wary and suspicious in your presence even after she came to know you lived in the same building. If she still continued to treat you like a criminal, she was probably racist to begin with; but if she calmed down, I’d say she was just being understandably anxious for her personal safety. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/89 "2013-08-11T04:09:11Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > \ > Huh. And here I always pegged **Skald** as an ambidextrous lesbian Eskimo… I think they prefer “Inuit.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/90 "2013-08-11T07:02:55Z")
I think everyone here is missing the young lady’s totally rational fear of Skald’s leather shoulder bag. Seriously though, the data is sufficiently ambiguous enough to support any interpretation of her actions and reactions. Only she knows what she was thinking that night. And maybe her BFF. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/91 "2013-08-11T11:22:41Z")
I am a white guy, and I don’t think I am very threatening looking, but I have had a similar experience. I was walking down a moderately dark street, and the only other person around was a woman (also white) going in the same direction at about the same pace, several yards in front of me. She kept glancing back over her shoulder at me, and eventually called out, “Are you following me?” I said “No,” and she laughed and apologized. (Thinking about it after, I don’t really know why she believed me.) I was slightly offended at the time, but I can see why she would have been worried. Anyway, it had nothing to do with race, as we were both white. I think it probably did have to do with gender. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/92 "2013-08-11T16:19:56Z")
**Skald** , I want more of the story. Did you ever encounter her again after the reveal that you both lived in the same building? Did you ever see her on the streetcar again? If there were further encounters, did her manner seem to suggest that she had been embarrassed by her actions of the evening when you didn’t quite meet? Did you ever get to know her? Did your ginger-haired friend ever get to know her? Was she just new to the building, or was she also new to Memphis? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/93 "2013-08-11T19:44:18Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > **Skald** , I want more of the story. Did you ever encounter her again after the reveal that you both lived in the same building? Sort of. She left me a six-pack of beer (which was wasted on me but appreciated by my buddy across the hall) some time later with an apologetic note. I never had an extended conversation with her again (that is, nothing more than “Good morning,” and “Sure, you can borrow a capful of fabric softener”). I saw her around the building, typically in the laundry rooms, and I’m sure we rode the same bus again, though I don’t actually recall seeing her. And I think I encountered her on the rooftop hot tub; she and her boyfriend wanted to use it, but wanted to wait till I was done. But I’m not sure about that last; it was a long time ago and I could be conflating two different women. > [@](#): > > Did you ever see her on the streetcar again? Never saw her on the trolley, but that doesn’t mean much. The problem with riding the trolley from the bus terminal to that particular apartment building was that it was about a ten minute walk and five minute trolley ride, and the trolleys were about 15 minutes apart and tended to sit at the terminal for about 5 minutes at a time. So if you were able-boded and it wasn’t raining, it was generally quicker to walk. Once I was riding the trolley home because I was midway through my first reading of LOTR. I noticed a friend of mine in the building running along the sidewalk in the same direction while smoking a cigarette. He was waiting for me when I walked into the building, and when I asked what he was doing, he said that he’d wanted to prove to both of us that he could outrun the trolley while smoking. > [@](#): > > If there were further encounters, did her manner seem to suggest that she had been embarrassed by her actions of the evening when you didn’t quite meet? Did you ever get to know her? Did your ginger-haired friend ever get to know her? I haven’t the foggiest whether Red ever got to know her. But she did hear the story when we were hanging out one evening, and she found the woman’s reaction partly amusing, partly irksome, and vaguely racist. Incidentally, when Red made the smart thug remark, she was chastising me for walking from downtown to Overton Square at night to go to the movies. Her point was that that I looked somewhat like a thug but wasn’t, but there were actual thugs about. > [@](#): > > Was she just new to the building, or was she also new to Memphis? I don’t know. I was never interested in pursuing a friendship with her. ---
**Author:** ![Buffalo\_Bilious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e99b99/32.png) [@Buffalo\_Bilious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buffalo_Bilious)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/94 "2013-08-11T20:41:29Z")
Ya know what? This isn’t “racism” or “sexism”, the young lady was merely exhibiting “situational awareness”, which all of us should practice. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/95 "2013-08-11T21:21:09Z")
Okay, based on the rest of the story, I vote “a little bit racist.” At least, _she_ saw it that way, and felt really awful about it. ETA: > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t know. I was never interested in pursuing a friendship with her. That’s kinda weird. I’d have expected her to be interested in being friends with you. I can’t even imagine anyone _not_ wanting to be your friend, if only to keep the bees at bay. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/96 "2013-08-11T22:18:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Okay, based on the rest of the story, I vote “a little bit racist.” At least, _she_ saw it that way, and felt really awful about it. > > ETA: > > That’s kinda weird. I’d have expected her to be interested in being friends with you. I can’t even imagine anyone _not_ wanting to be your friend, if only to keep the bees at bay. Assuming this isn’t just an Evil!Skald joke, _I_ didn’t want to be friends with _her_. I didn’t wish her ill or anything; I just didn’t see any any benefit to me in pursuing a friendship. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/97 "2013-08-11T22:34:31Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Okay, based on the rest of the story, I vote “a little bit racist.” At least, _she_ saw it that way, and felt really awful about it. While it’s entirely possible that **Skald** ’s race was a factor, if she’d reacted the same way to a white neighbor in the elevator then she presumably would have felt pretty bad about that too. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/98 "2013-08-12T02:14:20Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think they prefer “Inuit.” 🙂 Not necessarily: [Eskimo - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/99 "2013-08-12T02:26:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > “Even when you’re wearing a suit, you look kind of like a smart thug,” she said once. Isn’t that just the sweetest thing to say? And she’s a ginger? I like this woman. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834/100 "2013-08-12T14:12:15Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Why racist? Why not sexist? If Skald was a white business man in a suit I doubt she would have been scared, especially since this is Memphis we are talking about (I live there too). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-this-white-woman-acting-in-a-unreasonable-racist-fashion-n-this-situation/665834.md?page=6)