# was vito genevese responsible for the modren drug problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 17, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752 "2018-03-17T21:17:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/1 "2018-03-17T21:17:43Z")
I’m watching a show called "mafias greatest hits " and they did a bio of vito and it seems that many of the of the old law enforcement community say that he laid the ground work for the post ww2 drug problem in America by setting up a manufacturing & distribution network for the mafia that mostly exists to this day… in fact one says "if it wasn’t for him most of the drug epidemic wouldn’t exist because he sent it straight into the inner cities across the country " How much was he actually responsible for ? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/2 "2018-03-17T21:36:44Z")
I have no idea, but I think it’s one of those situations where if he hadn’t done it then someone else would. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/3 "2018-03-17T22:18:57Z")
Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, and their successors are responsible for the [drug problem](http://www.drugpolicy.org/issues/brief-history-drug-war), which is far less about drug use per se than it is the treatment of drug abuse as a criminal justice issue rather than a medical issue. The focus on mass incarceration, the justificaiton of asset forfeiture, and the general emphasis upon aggressive law enforcement rather than dealing with the fundamental socioeconomic problems which lead many people to turn to drugs as a release from hopelessness have resulted in a problem that seems unsolvable because no matter how hard you pound on it, a hammer will not suffiicently wrench a bolt up to specified torque. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/4 "2018-03-17T22:33:42Z")
Weren’t there huge problems with various forms of opiates and speed, going back way before World War II? As far as I can tell, the modern day “drug problem” is just a continuation of that. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/5 "2018-03-17T22:38:02Z")
I think this is too complex and controversial a question to be suitable for General Questions. Let’s move this over to Great Debates. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/6 "2018-03-17T22:47:54Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > Weren’t there huge problems with various forms of opiates and speed, going back way before World War II? As far as I can tell, the modern day “drug problem” is just a continuation of that. Drug use, and some amount of abuse has been a problem from time immemorial. As long as nature produces opiates and conscious-affecting substances, people will use them. But the “drug problem” that we face today is a combination of desperation on the part of people who feel trapped in poverty and a drug prohibition and incarceration industry which is realizing enormous yields from for-profit prisons, law enforcement equipment and training, and drug-related litigation. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/7 "2018-03-17T22:51:40Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > a drug prohibition and incarceration industry which is realizing enormous yields from for-profit prisons, law enforcement equipment and training, and drug-related litigation. You are correct. What we have in this country, is a monetization of suffering, and a prison system that treats people as cattle. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/8 "2018-03-18T00:08:26Z")
The bigger, longer version of the theory goes this way: - U.S. needed resistance help for the invasion of Italy. - OSS (the forerunner of the CIA) made a deal with U.S. Mafia bosses, to use their connections to the Italian Cosa Nostra, who would serve as a fifth column for the Allies. - Italian mob (who didn’t like Mussolini anyway) helps Allies in successful invasion of Sicily, then Italian peninsula. - OSS rewards Mafia by getting the government to turn a blind eye to Mafia’s drug dealing, allowing the pre-War drug network to expand greatly after the War. Depending on which version of the theory you hear, it might have been Genovese who made the most from this arrangement, it might have been Genovese’s boss, Lucky Luciano, it might have been Albert Anastasia of the Mangano Family. It’s all in the shadowy world of conspiracies, half-truths and unspoken agreements. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/9 "2018-03-18T00:30:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > But the “drug problem” that we face today is a combination of desperation on the part of people who feel trapped in poverty 1. Society as a whole isn’t all that concerned about people trapped in poverty–and thus wouldn’t rate a problem affecting only that group as particularly important. 2. Considering the truly massive numbers one sees thrown around about illegal drug sales, it is obvious the poor can only be spending a very small fraction of this number–as they simply don’t have that much money. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/10 "2018-03-18T01:00:49Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > The bigger, longer version of the theory goes this way: The even longer version goes back earlier. American organized crime was typically a more local affair through the 19th century. Typical revenue sources were things like prostitution, gambling, and protection rackets. Then came Prohibition. Organized crime now had a huge market that wanted an illegal product. That led to the creation of both illegal production facilities and smuggling routes. Sometimes there was voluntary knitting together of existing groups to make it happen. Sometimes the takeovers were more hostile. By the time Prohibition ended there were larger criminal organizations with wider reaches. They had experience and infrastructure enabling them to smuggle illicit goods both nationally and internationally. That may not have been the result wanted out of Prohibition. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/11 "2018-03-18T13:03:15Z")
Another vote for the effects of first Prohibition and then its repeal as part of it. J. Edgar Hoover also played a key role in enabling the Mafia. For some reason\* he strongly opposed the FBI going after the Mob, focusing instead on the Commies in terms of organized groups. So the Mafia was able to fully setup and initially run their drug systems with little Federal interference. Evil has many fathers. - The conjecture is that they were blackmailing him. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/12 "2018-03-18T14:23:56Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Drug use, and some amount of abuse has been a problem from time immemorial. As long as nature produces opiates and conscious-affecting substances, people will use them. But the “drug problem” that we face today is a combination of desperation on the part of people who feel trapped in poverty and a drug prohibition and incarceration industry which is realizing enormous yields from for-profit prisons, law enforcement equipment and training, and drug-related litigation. > > Stranger > [@Dennis Miller](#): > > Now I’m not pro-drug. They obviously cause a lot of damage. But I am pro-logic, and you’re never going to stop the human need for release through altered consciousness. The government could take away all the drugs in the world and people would spin around on their lawn until they fell down and saw God.” I agree with both of you. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/13 "2018-03-18T14:33:30Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > That may not have been the result wanted out of Prohibition. Even more directly is one [Harry J. Anslinger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger). In 1929 after making a name for himself he was made assistant commissioner for the Federal Bureau of Prohibition. In 1930 he was made commissioner of the just-founded Bureau of Narcotics. He wasn’t much interested in marijuana until after Prohibition ended. > [@wiki](#): > > Prior to the end of alcohol prohibition, Anslinger had claimed that cannabis was not a problem, did not harm people, and “there is no more absurd fallacy” than the idea it makes people violent. His critics argue he shifted not due to objective evidence but self-interest due to the obsolescence of the Department of Prohibition he headed when alcohol prohibition ceased - campaigning for a new Prohibition against its use. Then, after the prohibition of alcohol ended. > [@](#): > > _Anslinger ran a campaign against marijuana on radio and at major forums. His view was clear, ideological and judgmental:_ > > ``` > By the tons it is coming into this country — the deadly, dreadful poison that racks and tears not only the body, but the very heart and soul of every human being who once becomes a slave to it in any of its cruel and devastating forms.... Marihuana is a short cut to the insane asylum. Smoke marihuana cigarettes for a month and what was once your brain will be nothing but a storehouse of horrid specters. Hasheesh makes a murderer who kills for the love of killing out of the mildest mannered man who ever laughed at the idea that any habit could ever get him... > > ``` Coincidence? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/14 "2018-03-19T05:04:40Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > was vito genevese responsible for the modren drug problem? Only in as much as he was in the right place at the right time. If not him it would have been another crime boss. That’s sort of like saying that if Columbus hadn’t been there no one would have discovered America. On the other hand I agree with others here that the problem isn’t dealers, it’s the irresponsible policy makers. You can’t legislate away human’s desire. Prohibition proved that. . ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/15 "2018-03-19T17:20:08Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Another vote for the effects of first Prohibition and then its repeal as part of it. > > J. Edgar Hoover also played a key role in enabling the Mafia. For some reason\* he strongly opposed the FBI going after the Mob, focusing instead on the Commies in terms of organized groups. So the Mafia was able to fully setup and initially run their drug systems with little Federal interference. > > Evil has many fathers. > > - The conjecture is that they were blackmailing him. The reason he did not want to go after the mafia was because he wanted to present the FBI as having crime under control. The existence of large and powerful criminal organizations would have undermined that narrative. So he had the FBI ignore it until Genovese’s blundering made that impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/16 "2018-03-19T20:40:19Z")
The profit motive is responsible for the drug problem. There is too much money to be made and even if it weren’t for the mafia, then distribution networks would’ve formed anyway to distribute drugs. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-vito-genevese-responsible-for-the-modren-drug-problem/810752/17 "2018-03-19T20:50:17Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, and their successors are responsible for the [drug problem](http://www.drugpolicy.org/issues/brief-history-drug-war), which is far less about drug use per se than it is the treatment of drug abuse as a criminal justice issue rather than a medical issue. The focus on mass incarceration, the justificaiton of asset forfeiture, and the general emphasis upon aggressive law enforcement rather than dealing with the fundamental socioeconomic problems which lead many people to turn to drugs as a release from hopelessness have resulted in a problem that seems unsolvable because no matter how hard you pound on it, a hammer will not suffiicently wrench a bolt up to specified torque. > > Stranger That, and utilizing drugs to pay for clandestine government ops, attempted coups and secret wars. > [@PastTense](#): > > 1. Society as a whole isn’t all that concerned about people trapped in poverty–and thus wouldn’t rate a problem affecting only that group as particularly important. > > 2. Considering the truly massive numbers one sees thrown around about illegal drug sales, it is obvious the poor can only be spending a very small fraction of this number–as they simply don’t have that much money. Except the poor spend a hugely disproportionate amount of their income on drugs compared to wealthier clients.