# Was Werner von Braun viewed with suspicion or is Tom Lehrer off his rocker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 10, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923 "2006-11-10T20:37:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/1 "2006-11-10T20:37:09Z")
In the song “Werner von Braun”, Tom Lehrer makes some pointed remarks about the man who sent us to the moon: \*Gather round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun A man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience Call him a Nazi, he won’t even frown “Ha, Nazi schmazi,” says Wernher von Braun Don’t say that he’s hypocritical Say rather that he’s apolitical “Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down That’s not my department,” says Wernher von Braun\* Now, when I was in elementary and high school (late 70s-1989), we were generally taught that von Braun had worked for the Nazis but was basically forced to do so, and that his work for the US was what basically jumpstarted our space programs. Was there actually a great deal of suspicion about von Braun’s allegiances in the 50s-60s? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/2 "2006-11-10T20:45:10Z")
From what they were saying about von Braun when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, he was the hero of the US space program. Lehrer’s song was just an attempt to point out that some of the superficial elements of his life don’t look all that good. I don’t think the allegations in the song were ever taken seriously, even by Lehrer. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/3 "2006-11-10T20:50:19Z")
It’s hard to tell, at this remove. I wasn’t even alive when most of Lehrer’s discography was published, so I’m not really sure how close any of his more political songs were to his own or popular opinion. (I DO know that “Vatican Rag” plays off a very wide and popular anti-Vatican II wave among Catholics (some remnants of which are _still_ extant)) ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/4 "2006-11-10T21:06:38Z")
Mort Sahl–“Von Braun’s memoirs are entitled ‘I AIMED FOR THE STARS.’ He should add ‘SOMETIMES I HIT LONDON’.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/5 "2006-11-10T22:17:07Z")
The government certainly was suspicious of von Braun even though they had no compunctions about squeezing him and his fellow German refugees from every scrap of knowledge they had. One of the reasons that the Russians beat us into space and the Navy was given the first chance to send up a satellite is that von Braun’s team was never given full funding or full trust. I’m a bit too young to know what public attitudes toward him was like first hand, but looking back it appears that official government propaganda was that he was a good guy, that he did have good p.r. as the face of many documentaries and books about space, but that those who didn’t buy into the official line were much more cynical. Germans were simply not well liked in the 1950s, much less ex-Nazis, whether they now worked for us or not. Lehrer was a cult favorite, not a popular one. His views were certainly eastern intellectual elite, but I mean that in a good way. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/6 "2006-11-10T22:38:14Z")
Von Braun was definitely in the Nazi party since 1937, and possibly as early as 1932. He was also an SS officer. But these things were required for “his life’s work”, as he put it. It’s a complex issue, discussed at some length here: > **[Wernher von Braun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_von_Braun)** > > Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun (US: /ˌvɜːrnər vɒn ˈbraʊn/ VUR-nər von BROWN, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}German: \[ˌvɛʁnheːɐ̯ fɔn ˈbʁaʊ̯n\]; 23 March 1912 – 16 June 1977) was a German and American aerospace engineer and space architect. He was a member of the Nazi Party and Allgemeine SS, and the leading figure in... Von Braun claimed that he was largely incapable of ameliorating the sufferings of the concentration camp inmates, and was threatened by the guards. He was himself arrestecd at one point. In principle, he could’ve stoped working on the project that was certainly causing destruction on the enemy. But why should he? He had counterparts in the Allies working on weapons of destruction for our side, too. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/7 "2006-11-10T23:50:10Z")
Nazis are supposed to be fervently anti-communist, so you’d think that’d be a positive in the Cold War. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/8 "2006-11-10T23:51:01Z")
Whether the US government and populace was suspicious of von Braun is immaterial. I think that nothing about the general US view of von Braun can be gained from Leher’s song. Lehrer, a humorist, was just making a joke detailing _his_ view of von Braun. ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/9 "2006-11-10T23:53:22Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Was there actually a great deal of suspicion about von Braun’s allegiances in the 50s-60s? [/QUOTE] In what sense, allegiances to whom? Are you asking if the US suspected that he secretly wished to resurrect Nazi Germany, that he might “defect” to the Soviets or what? If you are simply asking if the US suspected he was an active Nazi, I believe the current conventional wisdom is that sure it knew, but chose not to care while he was useful. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![turnbuckle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3e96dc/32.png) [@turnbuckle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turnbuckle)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/10 "2006-11-11T00:13:12Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] (I DO know that “Vatican Rag” plays off a very wide and popular anti-Vatican II wave among Catholics (some remnants of which are _still_ extant)) [/QUOTE] Damn you! I lurked through this thread earlier and have been singing “Vatican Rag” all afternoon. First you get down on your knees/Fiddle with your rosaries… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/11 "2006-11-11T03:00:58Z")
[QUOTE=turnbuckle] Damn you! I lurked through this thread earlier and have been singing “Vatican Rag” all afternoon. First you get down on your knees/Fiddle with your rosaries… [/QUOTE] Bow your head with great respect and _jazz hands_ Genuflect! Genuflect! Genuflect! ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/12 "2006-11-11T03:19:35Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Bow your head with great respect and _jazz hands_ Genuflect! Genuflect! Genuflect! [/QUOTE] Bahahahaha… I love that song. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/13 "2006-11-11T03:26:48Z")
Let’s get back on track, please. _In Russian OR English I know how to count down And I’m learning Chinese, Says Werner von Braun._ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/14 "2006-11-11T03:37:37Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou] Let’s get back on track, please. _In Russian OR English I know how to count down And I’m learning Chinese, Says Werner von Braun._ [/QUOTE] Heh…I wanted to post that one, too, but that’s three verses of a four-verse song and I was thinking a copyright nazi (schmazi) would yell at me. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/15 "2006-11-11T04:49:41Z")
I think all Lehrer was doing was suggesting that you can take the boy out of the country, but you can’t take the country out of the boy. He was expressing the thought that no matter how much an ex-German might protest, wave his new flag or take an oath, the suspicion is always there that deep down inside is a German. And scratch a German, what do you get? At least he did it with humor. Not unlike Mel Brooks. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/16 "2006-11-11T04:57:35Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] And scratch a German, what do you get? [/QUOTE] Invaded? Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/17 "2006-11-11T05:00:46Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] And scratch a German, what do you get? [/QUOTE] Sauerbraten? “Danke schoen”? A friend for life? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/18 "2006-11-11T05:12:36Z")
Pretty much by definition, a moderately popular protest song will express an opinion that many people will agree with and many will disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/19 "2006-11-11T06:09:08Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] And scratch a German, what do you get? [/QUOTE] Er… a slightly bleeding german? Some skin stuck under your fingernails? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2006, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923/20 "2006-11-11T11:28:30Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] And scratch a German, what do you get? [/QUOTE] You win $2 in the German Lotto game? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-werner-von-braun-viewed-with-suspicion-or-is-tom-lehrer-off-his-rocker/379923.md?page=2)