# Was Yoda Cheapened by the Light Saber Fight In Star Wars II? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 29, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166 "2003-10-29T03:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/1 "2003-10-29T03:45:19Z")
My husband and I have been debating this since the theatrical release. Every time we see the movie on cable, it rears its ugly head. Hubby firmly insists that the Saber fight increased his esteem for Yoda. I say that Yoda’s dignity was singed by having to _resort_ to using a Light Saber. He says that Light Saber skills are essential for a Jedi, and that Yoda would use that weapon as frequently as any other. I say that Yoda should be _above_ using the Light Saber. One in which the Force is so strong should be able to deal with his foes merely through use of it. We both agree that Yoda repeatedly screeching “YE-AHH” was something we could have done without. So what do you guys think? ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/2 "2003-10-29T03:46:22Z")
Hell no. He tried using the force, Dooku was his equal. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/3 "2003-10-29T03:51:03Z")
Use of the Force directly only works on weaker opponents. Even the Emperor would have had to bust out a saber if Luke had been his equal. I didn’t like Yoda’s fighting style AT ALL though. All that unnecessary hopping around and yelling… It could have been so much more elegant. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/4 "2003-10-29T04:03:34Z")
Hell no it didn’t cheapen him. I’ve been anticipating something like that since I was seven years old! And dutchboy208, it only looks that way because of how extremely fast he is. I’ve watched this fight in slo-mo several times and his style is very elegant. Very Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon-ish. ---
**Author:** ![Fibber\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Fibber\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fibber_McGee)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/5 "2003-10-29T04:04:20Z")
As dutchboy points out, I don’t think Yoda was so much cheapened by his use of a lightsaber as _how_ he used it, bouncing around like a grasshopper on PCP. Now those, “Who da man? Yoda man!” commercials, those utterly cheapened the character. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/6 "2003-10-29T04:08:27Z")
Hell no. Yoda’s pretty damned impressive with the force, but he’s only slightly better than Dooku with the force, if better at all. With a lightsabre, though, it was pretty much no contest. Yoda was all over Dooku’s ass, to put it crudely. If Dooku hadn’t used cheap tactics, (putting the two young Jedi in danger) Yoda would’ve sliced him to ribbons. It was always implied that Yoda was powerful, but never really shown to it’s full extent. Yoda leaping around at the speed of sound, delivering dozens of blows per second (\) really shows off Yoda’s power, finally. ---
**Author:** ![Tertius01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tertius01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tertius01)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/7 "2003-10-29T04:11:11Z")
I thought it would have been cooler to have Yoda calmly meditating while letting his lightsaber hover and fight for him. I agree with what has been said: Yoda fighting is good; Yoda hopping around like a (insert simile here), bad. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/8 "2003-10-29T04:12:58Z")
I was OK with the light saber fight, but I thought the thing that really cheapened Yoda was the scene where he went undercover in a nude dance club and gave a Hutt a lap dance. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/9 "2003-10-29T04:14:35Z")
Yoda, the one who said “War does not make one great”, now turns out to be a Great Warrior. Remember how Luke thought he was going to find a Great Warrior when he went looking for Yoda, and he was wrong? It undoes everything that the real STAR WARS movies established. ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/10 "2003-10-29T04:18:03Z")
Jedi are separated from ordinary mortals by two things: Force skills and lightsaber skills. As Yoda is the epitomy of all things Jedi, he must be the best at **both.** I mean, if someone tried to attack a Buddhist monk, is the monk going to stun the attacker with his knowledge of Zen koans, or is he going to open up a can of kung-fu whoop-ass? (A true Zen master would, of course, do both simultaneously.) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/11 "2003-10-29T04:20:22Z")
It was utterly ridiculous to watch, and was the icing on the cake of a movie that, in its entirety, ruined Yoda’s character. A wise, Zen-master type character had been turned into a clumsy, imperceptive, half-assed general willing to use a slave army to fight a bloody war to prop up a corrupt regime. It was a totally different character than the one in “The Empire Strikes Back.” ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/12 "2003-10-29T04:29:21Z")
Also, if you’ll remember, Yoda said “A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.” That means a Jedi is morally forbidden to use the Force to directly harm a living being. You’ll notice that Yoda merely used the Force to deflect Dooku’s lightning back at him rather than throwing any lightning of his own. If a Jedi wants to attack someone, the lightsaber is their only option. Oh, and the reason Yoda flips around during the fight is because it’s the only way he can reach his opponent, as he’s considerably shorter than a human. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/13 "2003-10-29T04:30:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by RickJay_ > It was utterly ridiculous to watch, and was the icing on the cake of a movie that, in its entirety, ruined Yoda’s character. A wise, Zen-master type character had been turned into a clumsy, imperceptive, half-assed general willing to use a slave army to fight a bloody war to prop up a corrupt regime. It was a totally different character than the one in “The Empire Strikes Back.” Well, you could argue that the Yoda we see in Empire is a direct result of all the mistakes he makes in Clones, right down to the “Wars do not make one great” line. Did the scene cheapen his character? Depends on what you valued in his character, I suppose. Still, compared with the rest of the franchise, I think he got off pretty easy. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/14 "2003-10-29T05:01:30Z")
On one hand, seeing Yoda cut loose and go full throttle against Dooku was really cool. On the other hand, it would be even cooler if Yoda had just stood there and deflected Dooku’s lightsaber strikes with his hands or something. Or even better, use the Force to flip Dooku’s lightsaber from out of his hands, break it, then throw Dooku against a wall. Of course, plotwise, Dooku had to get away…what a same… ---
**Author:** ![A\_wizard\_song\_for\_thee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/46a35a/32.png) [@A\_wizard\_song\_for\_thee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_wizard_song_for_thee)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/15 "2003-10-29T06:06:16Z")
Nothing really to add, just, y’know, I wanted to support my homeslices who are saying that it did cheapen Yoda’s character. I mean, basically, cut-and-paste everything the OP and **Dex** said and pretend I said it. I don’t get why they didn’t just have Mace Windu or something come and rescue the two Jedi. Yoda should be above such things as hand-to-hand combat. I mean you’re telling me that his fight wasn’t fueled by anger? And, as we learned from the real movies, anger leads to hate which leads to the Dark Side. See, I was cool with Yoda doing the passive thing and just keeping Dooku off. Then he went and busted out his lightsaber and made an ass of himself and the audience. You can’t lash out with good side of the Force, dangit! ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/16 "2003-10-29T07:38:20Z")
Yoda cheapened himself by appearing in that movie at all. If his ability with the force was all that he would have transcended fiction and killed George Lucas for even attempting to use that script. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/17 "2003-10-29T07:55:18Z")
It just felt tacky. Something not essential to the plot, but thrown in solely for a cheap “woah, cool” moment. It’s not a big deal at all, but if pressed for an opinion I liked the fact that the little green chap had an air of mystery before. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/18 "2003-10-29T07:57:12Z")
Yoda was cheapened by sounding like Gonzo, IMO. The first time I saw the movie with him was in the theatre (when it was re-released), and when he started talking I couldn’t stop laughing for at least 20 minutes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/19 "2003-10-29T08:11:28Z")
I was freaked out as a kid when the great Jedi teacher turned out to be Grover. I kept expecting him to go into his waiter routine. Anyway, the Yoda of Episodes I and II comes across to me as a very flawed master, one who lets his judgement be clouded by earthly (coruscantly?) matters, makes poor decisions, and lets himself give in to anger. I don’t know if I’d say that Yoda was cheapened by the saber fight in Ep.II, but it would require that he undergo some kind of realization that brings him to the “wars do not make one great” Yoda we see in Empire. Judging by the latest two movies, I doubt Ep.III will deliver the goods. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166/20 "2003-10-29T11:53:11Z")
Jin, hasn’t yoda always sounded like Gonzo? > [@](#): > > Yoda, the one who said “War does not make one great”, now turns out to be a Great Warrior. Remember how Luke thought he was going to find a Great Warrior when he went looking for Yoda, and he was wrong? > > It undoes everything that the real STAR WARS movies established. Well, here’s the choice. Let Dooku, the utter bastard, get away, and possibly kill both of the young Jedi. Or, intervene. I don’t think that Yoda’s a total pacifist - he just doesn’t intervene unless he has to. As for the army thing… The choice was essentially “Let the Jedis be crushed, or use an army. That’s already been created. That’s ready for war **right now.** ” Yoda doesn’t really have a choice. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-yoda-cheapened-by-the-light-saber-fight-in-star-wars-ii/210166.md?page=2)