# Washing machine style in the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 12, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445 "2017-05-12T13:35:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/21 "2017-05-12T16:14:44Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > It’s a reflection of the way things are organised in America too. In Europe, if you live in an apartment, you will have your own machine under a worktop in the kitchen. In America you would use a communal machine down in the basement (a la Big Bang Theory). > > Out of the cities, American houses are more spacious, so they would have a machine in a scullery and have no need for the space saving worktop. > > Times are changing as said above with the need for the water and energy saving features of European style machines. The Missus bought a new washing machine and dryer last year. She bought a top-loader. For one thing, it was cheaper than a front-loader. (She _hates_ spending money.) The other thing is the layout of our laundry room. There is a deep sink next to the washer, and the washer is in the corner. We could not have put a front-loader in there unless we had some plumbing done to move the sink. And then the sink would have been in the corner, and not very accessible. The dryer is in front of the washer. It’s no trouble getting into the washer. So we pretty much _had_ to get a top-loading washing machine. We did consider stacked units. This would give us more floor space (but much of the window would be blocked), and the sink could stay where it is. That would entail tearing out the cabinets. It may happen eventually, but these machines should last a long time. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/22 "2017-05-12T16:26:28Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > For the sake of completeness, though not much contributing to the discussion, is variant 3a: none at all, but the apartment has space and connections set aside for bring-your-own full-sized washer and dryer (i.e., dedicated washing machine closet). how about 3b, which is a communal coin-op set in each building _plus_ hookups in your unit (or basement storage) if you want to bring your own? This is what my last apartment was like. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/23 "2017-05-12T16:41:47Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The stackable set with a toploader will never not look ridiculous. Another advantage of the front-loading design is that they can be stacked without looking like their industrial designer was Rube Goldberg. We have one of those now. My wife wanted the machines upstairs instead of in the basement so we started looking. She didn’t want to spend a lot on stackable front loaders but we expected the stacked top loader wouldn’t be big enough since we’d only seen smaller apartment models. We found one at Lowes that was just as big as the set we already had in the basement, it cost a lot less than a pair of front loaders, and she loves it, mainly because there’s no more carrying clothes up and down the stairs. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/24 "2017-05-12T17:26:19Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > The front loaders on television have added visual interest. Cinematographers like things that attract the eye. Producers like paid product placement, and high end front loaders are what manufacturers are trying to sell. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/25 "2017-05-12T17:35:40Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Producers like paid product placement, and high end front loaders are what manufacturers are trying to sell. [Relevant clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hcl6jzgFu4&t=0m40s). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/26 "2017-05-12T17:35:41Z")
I want to say one word to you. Just one word: **Miele**. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/27 "2017-05-12T17:38:56Z")
I’ve never bought a front loader, but my friends who have all had trouble with them. The larger front loaders tend to have leaks and then mildew around the seal. Blech! Top loaders are catching up in technology, and still far more long-lasting. I had a 30-year-old top-loader that still did a great job when I sold it. Most front loaders last 12-15 years in my (obviously limited) experience. As to American vs European sizes, there’s no comparison. [This site](http://www.topten.eu/english/criteria/washing-machines-2.html&fromid=) shows reviews of washers available in Europe. The largest category is \>8.8kg, which is about 2.5cu. ft. [This site](http://www.homedepot.com/b/Appliances-Washers-Dryers-Washers-Front-Load-Washers/N-5yc1vZc3pj) shows the range available in a standard American hardware store. If you scrolldown the left-hand column you’ll see there are 37 options in the 4.5 to 5 cu.ft. range, and only specialty machines are available under 4 cu. ft. We would actually pay a premium for a unit that small. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/28 "2017-05-12T18:03:18Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I’ve never bought a front loader, but my friends who have all had trouble with them. The larger front loaders tend to have leaks and then mildew around the seal. Blech! We bought an LG front-loader about ten or twelve years ago. It has a drain at the bottom to drain out a sump that catches water, but this frequently smells like a sewer. I drain it almost every time I wash clothes because I don’t want that half-liter of sewer water to be used on my clothes. The smell doesn’t seem to be around the door seal. Is there a way to fix this problem? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/29 "2017-05-12T18:09:39Z")
Dunno; my Bosch cheap washer/dryer has a similar arrangement below, which i emptied every now and again, but then I broke the screw somehow and it’s stuck shut so I no longer think about it. Never noticed any smell ever. I would never buy a top loader. They’re kind of silly. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/30 "2017-05-12T18:13:02Z")
Whirlpool sells these “Affresh” tablets and powders for running a “cleaning” cycle on washers. supposed to help with the mold/smell. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/31 "2017-05-12T18:53:15Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > When we rented a house in London, the clothes washer was under the kitchen counter - that struck us as unusual. More unusual was that it was a combined washer-dryer, which was very handy in that you didn’t have to remember to move the clothes when the wash cycle was done, but wasn’t very good for throughput if you had multiple loads. Is this type of combined machine the norm in the UK? Both totally normal. Combined washer dryers are far more common in flats with no outside space, though. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/32 "2017-05-12T19:04:50Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > It’s a reflection of the way things are organised in America too. In Europe, if you live in an apartment, you will have your own machine under a worktop in the kitchen. In America you would use a communal machine down in the basement (a la Big Bang Theory). Maybe in older apartments, but I haven’t used a communal laundry room since I lived in dorms on campus. In my apartment, I have a washer and a dryer stacked one on top of the other in a niche, with the washer on the bottom. Yes, that necessarily means the washer is a front-loader, and the dryer is a front-loader as well. And my apartment is not expensive, only $625/month, which is right in line with Missoula rent prices. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/33 "2017-05-12T19:22:42Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > We bought an LG front-loader about ten or twelve years ago. It has a drain at the bottom to drain out a sump that catches water, but this frequently smells like a sewer. I drain it almost every time I wash clothes because I don’t want that half-liter of sewer water to be used on my clothes. > > The smell doesn’t seem to be around the door seal. > > Is there a way to fix this problem? The first close encounter of the laundry kind I had with a front-load washer was when I visited England and I went to a laundromat in 1991. (I assumed they were also available in north America, but I don’t remember every seeing one). I saw a preview for a Phyllis Diller sitcom in the late 60’s, where she played a suddenly poor rich ditsy blonde… (Hmmm. That sounds like an original concept). She puts the dishes in the “dish”-washer then starts it, then looks in the front window to see the dishes tumbling. Ha ha. Don’t remember actually seeing a live front-loading washer as a kid, except giant ones in laundromats. By the time we built our new house in 2007 front-load was all the rage, and the expensive prestige washer type. Plus, as mentioned, it used a lot less water. So somewhere around/after 2000 it became the new normal and is taking over in North America. We wanted the laundry to be on the same floor as the bedrooms, not in the basement. Fortunately, we built a one-story and our laundry is right beside an exterior wall that has the concrete foundation below. We saw a few show homes with laundry alcoves on the second floor. The problem with front-loaders is they spin extremely fast to remove as much water as possible, to help with energy-saving in drying. (This is also where the big diameter drum of a larger machine becomes a plus.) However, the things are Fscking heavy! (300lb?) The interior is full of assorted hefty weights connected between drum and frame with assorted springs to damp any vibrations from off-balance spinning at several resonances. We were told in wood-frame houses with front-load washers on the second floor, the whole house could start shaking… 🙂 Another point - to get rid of the mildew smell and mold - (a) if your machine has the super-hot cycle, run that every so often. (We do with loads of towels, which also rids them of the smell) (b) LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN! Let the interior dry out. Nothing says “make mine fungus” like closing in a very damp environment. And we had a bit of servicing done with our washer, and the Sears serviceman reinforced this point. First, the drums have a big bearing at the back - keeping things dry prevents any chance of rust, so preventing premature failure. He also mentioned that the detergent manufacturers want you to use a helluva lot more detergent than is necessary. Our measuring cup lid has about 3 or 4 different levels. Half the smallest amount is usually more than enough. Otherwise, the very little water you use will foam up and wet that same bearing. So: use very little detergent and let the damn thing dry out whenever possible. We leave our washer door open all the time. My in-laws didn’t, and complained about the smell until we told them to leave it open. Now, no problem. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/34 "2017-05-12T20:34:45Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I’ve never bought a front loader, but my friends who have all had trouble with them. The larger front loaders tend to have leaks and then mildew around the seal. Blech! > > Top loaders are catching up in technology, and still far more long-lasting. I had a 30-year-old top-loader that still did a great job when I sold it. Most front loaders last 12-15 years in my (obviously limited) experience. I don’t see why a front-loader should last less long than an equivalent top-loader. I also had a top-loader that lasted practically forever, but I think a lot of that was just due to how they were built back then. The direct-drive drum and all-electronic controls on today’s front-loaders are likely to be quite durable. There’s not really a lot of moving parts other than the motor and drum and the valves. > [@CurtC](#): > > We bought an LG front-loader about ten or twelve years ago. It has a drain at the bottom to drain out a sump that catches water, but this frequently smells like a sewer. I drain it almost every time I wash clothes because I don’t want that half-liter of sewer water to be used on my clothes. > > The smell doesn’t seem to be around the door seal. > > Is there a way to fix this problem? I also have an LG with a similar drain, which you’re supposed to drain out once in a while in order to remove and clean the pump filter. I did it the other day for the first time in seven years and there was no smell, nor for that matter did the filter need cleaning. It might perhaps be because I use bleach in probably about half my loads. You might try running a tub clean cycle with bleach and/or a tub cleaning additive. A good dose of bleach through the system ought to clear it up – but no more than fits in the bleach dispenser. > [@md2000](#): > > So: use very little detergent and let the damn thing dry out whenever possible. We leave our washer door open all the time. My in-laws didn’t, and complained about the smell until we told them to leave it open. Now, no problem. I leave mine open all the time, too, based on advice I read a long time ago. The amount of detergent needed depends a great deal on the water hardness. I’m pretty sure that the water supply around here recently became much softer because the same amount of Tide HE I’ve always used, as well as other detergents, all started producing massive over-sudsing. I used to fill the dispenser cup to the “normal” level even for small loads, and now I barely need more than enough to just coat the bottom of the cup to produce normal suds and get things clean. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/35 "2017-05-12T20:40:11Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > So: use very little detergent… The top-loader Mrs. L.A. bought is of the ‘very efficient’ variety. It uses very little water. She was amused by reviews by people who had not used such a washer before, and thought it wasn’t working. 😛 Anyway, modern top-loaders use less water than earlier ones, and also less detergent. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/36 "2017-05-12T21:50:49Z")
What falls apart on a lot of modern appliances - and especially on my washer and dryer - they have these stupid plastic-sheet covers for the buttons. after 10 years of indenting this plastic sheet, the area around the raised button is cracking. Eventually, it will fall off like my in-laws’ exposing the metal contact underneath. They I just tape it back on with scotch tape, new piece every year or two. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/37 "2017-05-12T21:54:13Z")
Speaking about how much water it uses, about six months ago mine (the front-loader LG) started beeping, with an error code on the panel, and the tub was filling up with water. The water line was about halfway up the glass door when I checked on it. It’s a damn good thing someone was home. I turned the washer off but it was still filling up with water. I turned off the cold water supply and it stopped filling, then I ran the washer through the “rinse and spin” cycle to let it empty. After I looked up what was wrong, I described the problem to my 16 year old son and told him to figure it out and fix it. That night we had the part on order, a couple of days later he installed it, and it’s been working fine ever since. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/38 "2017-05-13T06:57:38Z")
I’ve installed front loaders in the last 4 places I’ve lived, going back to 1996. In '96, they were just about impossible to find, and we had to special order a European brand. Since this was going into a remodeled kitchen in a condo, front loader was the only way we could have our own washer. Front loaders are now very easy to find, and the costs have come way down. As for why top loading? It’s very easy to make a top loading machine that will hold water. It’s a bucket that spins. With old style top loaders, the lid didn’t even latch. I could open it up after the cycle started, and toss in the socks that I’d forgotten. The technology level is low. A front loader has to have a door in the front of it, but also hold water. That alone is going to jack the costs way up. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/39 "2017-05-13T07:45:36Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > When we rented a house in London, the clothes washer was under the kitchen counter - that struck us as unusual. More unusual was that it was a combined washer-dryer, which was very handy in that you didn’t have to remember to move the clothes when the wash cycle was done, but wasn’t very good for throughput if you had multiple loads. Is this type of combined machine the norm in the UK? Fairly common, especially in apartments, but far from the norm elsewhere. They have a couple of problems: The throughput as you mention, although I imagine most people either run it overnight, or during the day while they are at work. The other problem is that they are not very great at doing either job. A dryer usually has a much larger drum to allow the hot air to circulate. The smaller drum on a washer makes it much less efficient. Stand-alone dryers are cheap, while washer dryers are fairly expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445/40 "2017-05-13T07:56:41Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I also have an LG with a similar drain, which you’re supposed to drain out once in a while in order to remove and clean the pump filter. I did it the other day for the first time in seven years and there was no smell, nor for that matter did the filter need cleaning. It might perhaps be because I use bleach in probably about half my loads. You might try running a tub clean cycle with bleach and/or a tub cleaning additive. A good dose of bleach through the system ought to clear it up – but no more than fits in the bleach dispenser. That all seems good advice, but check the pdf manual: my Bosch Maxx 5 says: \*Bleaches may contain sulphur or chlorine which can corrode components of the washer/dryer. Do not bleach washing in the washer/dryer. \* So _some_ machines may not take it. However recently I’ve taken to using distilled white vinegar as a cleansing agent so probably same effect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washing-machine-style-in-the-us/786445.md?page=3)