Often, as in the case of Jefferson, integrating in very intimate ways.
Well he didn’t mention about the specifics of sinsemilla production… which is pretty important to consider if you are trying to determine if a person is smoking the Hemp they are growing…
Well if you are growing large fields of hemp you are going to have multiple uses… I would expect that if he was producing sinsemilla for smoking it was probably an extremely small percentage of his crop… I would suspect that the seed hemp he pulled in September are not the same females that he is referring to in the Aug. 7th quote… there would be no need to “separate” females that were expected to seed…
The key to the Aug 7 date is the approaching equilibrium of the light/dark cycle which signals the beginning of flowering… Which is when a female plant would need to be kept apart from males…
As for what plants went into the rot… I would suspect that he was surveying the field determining sex and strength of the plants… the strongest females would be left among the strongest males to ensure a healthy subsequent crop… and what is in the water is probably the weak plants that had been removed… but were still somewhat useful… again I don’t think he is talking about the same plants as the Aug 7th date… certainly he used the word “pulled” when he was talking about removing the seed plants for good… “separate” implies continued growth at a different location…
however I am trying to interpret a farming journal that is hundreds of years old… which I also lack a copy of…
Well those are their farming diaries… I wouldn’t expect there to be many entries about what he was smoking… I think some people are looking at this in entirely too modern way… No Washington was rollin up blunts or hittin a bong… If he did smoke any of his “hemp” it was probably part of a pipe mixture that also included tobacco… I wonder if writes down any of his recipes for pipe mixes anywhere…
Again I think you are taking too modern an attitude… I don’t think anyone cared about what farmers were putting in their pipes back then… including themselves… It was just another plant that grew from the earth to them…
Well quite frankly it was a joke… I thought there was a lot of lee way for jokes and sarcasm around here since it is supposed to be a humour column… Cecil seems to make quite a few tongue and cheek comments… but he did own a rather larger distillery and was known to enjoy a drink… Mount Vernon.Org had this to say…
"Did George Washington drink alcohol?
Alcohol played a large role in the lives of most people in the 1700s. It was drunk during social occasions, and used medicinally and as a trading commodity. George Washington held an enlightened, modern attitude toward the consumption of alcohol. He enjoyed a variety of beverages, his favorite being sweet fortified wines like Madeira and Port. He also drank rum punch, porter, and whiskey. He was well aware of the dangers of drinking alcohol to excess and was a strong proponent of moderation.
Did George Washington drink his whiskey?
We do not know, but upon Washington’s death a variety of products were stored in the basement of the Mansion, presumably for use by the Washington family. These included plain whiskey, cinnamon whiskey, apple, peach and persimmon brandy, and rectified apple brandy.
We do know that Washington proposed to drink whiskey in 1794 during the Whiskey Rebellion. At that time one of his aides wrote, “As the President will be going … into the Country of Whiskey [Pennsylvania] he proposes to make use of that liquor for his drink.”
And the Mormons apparently thought he wanted to get everyone wasted…
Well I would recommend one book that extensively covers marijuana and sinsemilla production… Jorge Cervantes’ Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower’s Bible
A very interesting read whether or not you smoke pot… A very technically inclined book that covers all aspects of production from breeding to processing…
I would certainly agree with you on that… the pseudo pro-hemp but actually pro-pot crowd is pretty silly… I of course had seen articles and websites about Washington growing hemp in the past but honestly didn’t give it much thought… It wasn’t until this column that I ever saw any quotes from the diary… and that Aug 7th entry is an action that is certainly indicative of sinsemilla production and not regular industrial hemp production… again… it was probably a very small portion of the total crop and not intended for distribution in any way…
I think you are reading my sentence wrong… I am not implying that the vast majority of cultures used Cannabis… I am saying that the cultures that were using cannabis were not literate/print producing cultures… If you want to know about who was using Cannabis at that time check out the wiki link in my post above… it is all cited…
also here is a cool little time line from Erowid, who does a pretty good job of citing there articles…
LOL at “name one” what is this high school??? obviously Marijuana is being used by multiple cultures for thousands of years by the mid 1700’s
Cannabis
Timeline
by Erowid
6000 BCE Cannabis seeds used for food in China.
4000 BCE Textiles made of hemp are used in China. Remains have been found of hemp fibers from this period and from Turkestan a century later. 1
2727 BCE First recorded use of cannabis as medicine in Chinese pharmacopoeia. In every part of the world humankind has used cannabis for a wide variety of health problems. 2
1500 BCE Cannabis cultivated in China for food and fiber
1500 BCE Scythians cultivate cannabis and use it to weave fine hemp cloth. (Sumach 1975)
1200 - 800 BCE Bhang (dried cannabis leaves, seeds and stems) is mentioned in the Hindu sacred text Atharva veda (Science of Charms) as “Sacred Grass”, one of the five sacred plants of India. It is used by medicinally and ritually as an offering to Shiva. 3
700 - 600 BCE The Zoroastrian Zend-Avesta, an ancient Persian religious text of several hundred volumes, and said to have been written by Zarathustra (Zoroaster), refers to bhang as Zoroaster’s “good narcotic” (Vendidad or The Law Against Demons)
700 - 300 BCE Scythian tribes leave Cannabis seeds as offerings in royal tombs.
700 BCE A grave dating from circa 700 BCE in Yanghai Tombs near Turpan, China contains psychoactive cannabis (not fiber-source hemp). 4 [More Info]
500 BCE Scythian couple die and are buried with two small tents covering censers. Attached to one tent stick was a decorated leather pouch containing wild Cannabis seeds. This closely matches the stories told by Herodotus. The gravesite, discovered in the late 1940s, was in Pazryk, northwest of the Tien Shan Mountains in modern-day Khazakstan.
500 BCE Hemp is introduced into Northern Europe by the Scythians. An urn containing leaves and seeds of the Cannabis plant, unearthed near Berlin, is dated to about this time.
500 - 100 BCE Hemp spreads throughout northern Europe.
430 BCE Herodotus reports on ritual, cleansing, and recreational use of Cannabis by the Scythians. 5 [Details]
100 - 0 BCE The psychotropic properties of Cannabis are mentioned in the newly compiled herbal Pen Ts’ao Ching which is attributed to an emperor c. 2700 B.C.
0 - 100 CE Construction of Samartian gold and glass paste stash box for storing hashish, coriander, or salt, buried in Siberian tomb.
70 Dioscorides mentions the use of Cannabis as a Roman medicament.
170 Galen (Roman) alludes to the psychoactivity of Cannabis seed confections.
500 - 600 The Jewish Talmud mentions the euphoriant properties of Cannabis. (Abel 1980)
900 - 1000 Scholars debate the pros and cons of eating hashish. Use spreads throughout Arabia.
1090 - 1256 In Khorasan, Persia, Hasan ibn al-Sabbah, the Old Man of the Mountain, recruits followers to commit assassinations…legends develop around their supposed use of hashish. These legends are some of the earliest written tales of the discovery of the inebriating powers of Cannabis and the supposed use of Hashish. 1256 Alamut falls
Early 12th Century Hashish smoking very popular throughout the Middle East.
12th Century Cannabis is introduced in Egypt during the reign of the Ayyubid dynasty on the occasion of the flooding of Egypt by mystic devotees coming from Syria. (M.K. Hussein 1957 - Soueif 1972)
1155 - 1221 Persian legend of the Sufi master Sheik Haidar’s of Khorasan’s personal discovery of Cannabis and it’s subsequent spread to Iraq, Bahrain, Egypt and Syria. Another of the ealiest written narratives of the use of Cannabis as an inebriant.
13th Century The oldest monograph on hashish, Zahr al-'arish fi tahrim al-hashish, was written. It has since been lost.
13th Century Ibn al-Baytar of Spain provides a description of psychaoctive Cannabis.
13th Century Arab traders bring Cannabis to the Mozambique coast of Africa.
1231 Hashish introduced to Iraq in the reign of Caliph Mustansir (Rosenthal 1971)
1271 - 1295 Journeys of Marco Polo in which he gives second-hand reports of the story of Hasan ibn al-Sabbah and his “assassins” using hashish. First time reports of Cannabis have been brought to the attention of Europe.
1378 Ottoman Emir Soudoun Scheikhouni issues one of the first edicts against the eating of hashish.
1526 Babur Nama, first emperor and founder of Mughal Empire learned of hashish in Afghanistan.
1549 Angolan slaves brought cannabis with them to the sugar plantations of northeastern Brazil. They were permitted to plant their cannabis between rows of cane, and to smoke it between harvests. 3
mid 16th Century The epic poem, Benk u Bode, by the poet Mohammed Ebn Soleiman Foruli of Baghdad, deals allegorically with a dialectical battle between wine and hashish.
Apr 10, 1563 “Conversations on the simples, drugs and materia medica of India” is published by Portuguese physician Garcia de Orta. It discusses Cannabis, Opium, and Nutmeg, among more than 50 medicinal plants and substances. [Details]
17th Century Use of hashish, alcohol, and opium spreads among the population of occupied Constantinople
1606-1632 French and British cultivate Cannabis for hemp at their colonies in Port Royal (1606), Virginia (1611), and Plymouth (1632). 3
Late 17th Century Hashish becomes a major trade item between Central Asia and South Asia.
1798 Napoleon discovers that much of the Egyptian lower class habitually uses hashish (Kimmens 1977). He declares a total prohibition. Soldiers returning to France bring the tradition with them.
I am seeing a similar contradiction here in “No one wrote about smoking pot in the 18th century because it was a disgrace, and, besides, no one wrote about smoking pot in the 18th century because it was routine.”
As to “integrating”, it is certainly true that by 1787 the end of the African slave trade was foreseeable, making it clear that the new African-American culture had come to stay.
You’re still misinterpreting what I said. I was complaining about the use of “illiterate.” If one of your earlier quotes is “recorded” then we are obviously not talking about illiterate cultures. (For the record, I doubt that any actual recording was done. In another thread where we’re arguing about something similar, I point out that this date is based on oral traditions, which are highly problematic.)
There is no evidence that the earlier findings of hemp use was for its psychoactive properties, BTW.
Your later dates are well within standard historic times. The Scythians definitely had language, the Hindus had the sacred texts mentioned right in your cite and the writings of Zoroaster are still extant.
Obviously, not everybody in these cultures were literate, although that’s true for almost every culture right down to the U.S. of today. Obviously, also, many users of drugs were not literate. That doesn’t mean that their cultures were not literate, or that people with literacy didn’t use drugs. Literate people have used drugs in all cultures. How do we know? Because almost all our knowledge comes from these sources. We have very few non-literate sources as evidence for drug use. Almost all the cites we do have come from written records, from literate cultures.
My point was that you were using illiterate incorrectly. You still are. You cite is ironic proof of that.
Another thing to consider, which you may already know, is Cecil is limited to 800 words, including the question, to write his words of wisdom. That sometimes means that certain details do not get communicated via the column.
I would have thought so too, my friend, but I guess I’m too serious in here now since typically when I try to make a joke someone admonishes me for it.
You’ll find no argument from me re: Washington drinking. But I do not see hemp smoking and alcohol consumption necessarily being that closely tied. YMMV.
LOL talk about nit picking… ya I used a the word literate in a loose sense… when what I meant was “print producing”… I don’t think cultures that not using a printing press would waste their “recording” materials on a subject as frivolous as pot consumption… I doubt it meant as much to them as it means to us…
The one thing worth discussing in your quote…
There is no reason that anyone cultivating Hemp would take the time and care that goes into producing psychoactive Cannabis if not for consumption…
It is not just a matter of separating males and females…
If you could give any other plausible use I am listening… even as an offering to the Gods they would have to first know of its “specialness” before it considered sacred…
Oh ya… Please don’t think I was trying to take Cecil to task about his omissions… I was merely trying to add a few specific details that I think are pertinent to the discussion… I love this Column/Site…
A nudder Oh ya… There doesn’t seem to be such a lite atmosphere around here for a humour column…
Having made the argument I have… I’ll be the first to say that one diary entry of thousands is a pretty big IF… but the IF does exist… And who’s to say that even if he was producing sinsemilla, that he was consuming it himself… it could have been for trade 
I find it extraordinarily unlikely that Jefferson cultivated hemp and did not write about it. Excerpts from this link:
http://www.virginia.edu/uvatours/gardens/gardensHistory.html
As naturalist, gardener, farmer, and scientist, Jefferson kept meticulous notes in his Garden Book…Jefferson’s interests ranged from the amount of seasonal rainfall, to the best tasting bean, to the preferred method of grafting peach trees…He also collected and encouraged the cultivation of Virginia’s native plants. “Not a sprig of grass that shoots uninteresting to me,” he said.
With no social stigma in place, there’s no reason why he wouldn’t write about hemp’s medicinal properties if he was aware of them.
BTW, my late grandfather talked about smoking wild weed in his youth, which would been around the start of the 20th century somewhere in the Eastern U.S. There wasn’t much potency to the stuff even then.
kfraser34 said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one of the standard techniques of horticulture to separate the males from the females so you can, you know, control the breeding?
I sincerely doubt that some one is going to “separate” an entire field of hemp for breeding purposes… I could see a farmer removing the weakest females and males from the field to allow the strongest male plants more growing room… but the strongest females are going to left amongst the strongest males to ensure pollination between the strongest specimen… not moved to a separate place…
I really don’t understand the big leap in logic here…
When your average Hemp farmer separates his males form his females, it is done so that pollination is prevented and the maximum amount of THC is produced…
Why is it so hard to believe that when Washington was performing the same action with his crop that he was doing it for that purpose?
This explanation has thousands of years of Hemp/Marijuana cultivation standing behind it…
First off I think you may have mistyped and meant that Jefferson wasn’t cultivating marijuana (the potent version of hemp) because he was growing fields of hemp…
Again I believe this is too modern a view of the situation… I don’t think that anyone in that time would have thought about marijuana any differently than tobacco, which were probably of equal strength, buzzwise… I got no cite for this… I’m just gonna reason here…
Even if Washington is separating the plants to delay pollination he is not going to be able to do a very good job of it in an open field with wind pollinating plants… even if a farmer was to grow a ladies only crop… it would still face an onslaught of pollen every windy day from neighbouring farms… So the THC % in any environment like this would be minimal… It would have an effect similar to tobacco… and not anything like the kind of super potent weed that is produced in today’s indoor hydroponic grow operations… for people in the know… it would be the brick of brick weed…
I don’t think these guys would have given it any more thought than any other ingredient they would put in a pipe mixture which could include tobacco, cloves, and host of other things…
I think the key to discovering about the prevalence of hemp use in the area/era would be to examine recipes for pipe mixtures…
But people did write about smoking tobacco, whereas no one wrote, pro or con, about smoking hemp.
This is the same contradiction that you get in most historical conspiracy theories: “It was such a big secret that you could be executed just for talking about it, and, besides, everyone knew all about it anyway.”
While I certainly agree with you, and the posters before you, that the lack of mentions in that period’s literature of cannabis usage certainly indicates that it was not a popular practice at the time… that really has no bearing on the point that I am trying to communicate… Which is definitely not that George Washington smoked weed… There is no definitive evidence that could prove (or disprove quite frankly) this notion…
The point that I am making is when looking at that Aug 7th entry and comparing its language to the limited number of other entries that are discussed and the traditional methods of Hemp/Cannabis cultivation are taken into consideration… the actions taken on that particular date are a VERY likely to indicate that George Washington was attempting to produce sinsimella… Was he successful? What did he do with it? Who knows… Maybe it’s used in some weird Stone Cutters ritual…
While the other plausible explanations can be made for the entry/actions… they do not survive Occam’s Razor…
[SIZE=“5”]
entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem[/SIZE]
lol
FWIW My reverence for the man known as George Washington and his historical accomplishments would be neither diminished nor embiggened… no matter how much pot he did or didn’t smoke…
A. How much do you actually know about 18th-century American hemp cultivation as it was actually done?
B. Another reason for separating the male and female plants is that flowering is bad for the fiber.
To me, it just seems too likely that either Washington or Jefferson would have made some mention of the medicinal or other unusual properties of this crop if they had known about it - and without any prejudice.
Ben Franklin made no mention of sampling this recreational / medicinal herb?
And let me get this straight: the various liquors that Washington was storing up were common knowledge, but he left no stores of tobacco mixes - no recipes or notes that suggested any special ingredients? F’r heaven’s sake, why not?
Hey John, not that I doubt you, but could you provide a cite regarding how flowering makes the fibers of the plant bad?
I don’t know why, but Wikipedia (s.v. Hemp) says quite plainly that it does.
Not that I don’t believe you either… but I took a good look at it and I don’t see anywhere in the wiki article about Hemp
I am in the right article??? what section is it in???