# Washington Monthly: "What If Obama Loses?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 3, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616 "2012-02-03T03:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stately_Greek_Automaton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/21 "2012-02-06T00:31:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Would you have made that comment in 2008 replacing Romney with Obama? Obama’s failures as an executive have already caused a stir in the demographic you are referring to. Hopefully with a Republican president the Democrats would get their act together and stand up against some of the civil rights abuses. As it is they are pretty much useless. Would a Mitt Romney get away with the assassination of citizens for example? Mitt Romney would absolutely get away with the assassination of Al-Awlaki. There’d be some small grumbling about it, but partisan politics mean the president can’t take a shit without someone’s disapproval. Do you really think otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/22 "2012-02-06T00:43:18Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I think one of the reasons young people and progressives like me are becoming so radicalized is the fact that Obama is essentially a Reagan Republican and is governing like one. Wall Street owns BOTH political parties right now. Our only choices seem to be between the Republican-lites of the Democratic Party and the freaking insane nutbags of the actual Republican Party. Having a freaking insane Republican nutbag elected will only further that feeling. Is this the same Obama who has abolished DADT, passed Obamacare, passed 700 billion dollars in Stimulus funding, passed Dodd-Frank, and appointed Kagan and Sotomayar to the Supreme Court? What has Obama done that is Reaganish other than something any sane President would do (like say kill our enemies)? And in many ways Republicans are Democrat-lite too, both parties accept the Progressive-New Deal-Great Society consensus-who in the GOP (except perhaps Mr. Paul) advocates a true laissez-faire economy? And Wall Street if it owns anyone it owns the Establishment-the Tea Party opposed the bank bailouts which would have been disastrous for Wall Street. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/23 "2012-02-06T01:02:02Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Is this the same Obama who has abolished DADT, passed Obamacare, passed 700 billion dollars in Stimulus funding, passed Dodd-Frank, and appointed Kagan and Sotomayar to the Supreme Court? What has Obama done that is Reaganish other than something any sane President would do (like say kill our enemies)? Don’t forget that he ended the Iraq War too. But this is Evil Captor’s standard complaint against Obama and it shows up in multiple Elections threads. I honestly don’t know why he believes what he does when you look at Obama’s resume (which you’ve helpfully posted). Would McCain have done any of those things? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/24 "2012-02-06T06:00:12Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Obama’s failures as an executive have already caused a stir in the demographic you are referring to. And what “failures,” other than legislation that he was unable to get through Congress due to the unreasonable intransigence of the GOP congressmen, or the job market which he has little to no control over, would you cite as having caused said stir in the demographic? > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I think one of the reasons young people and progressives like me are becoming so radicalized is the fact that Obama is essentially a Reagan Republican and is governing like one. Wall Street owns BOTH political parties right now. Our only choices seem to be between the Republican-lites of the Democratic Party and the freaking insane nutbags of the actual Republican Party. Having a freaking insane Republican nutbag elected will only further that feeling. You should go on some of the more right-wing boards. All you read is how the GOP is now Democrats Lite. There Are No True Conservatives In The Republican Party. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/25 "2012-02-06T06:12:48Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Depends. Was said citizen engaging in acts of war against US soldiers in the employ of a foreign power or group? > > For bonus points, was said citizen “assassinated” or were they killed in combat? You tell me. No proof of any wrongdoing has been brought forth by the Obama administration. How could he be engaged in acts of war? The only “war” we are fighting is in Afganistan against the Taliban. Was he responsible for 9/11 or other terrorist acts? Who knows? No proof has been offered. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/26 "2012-02-06T06:21:07Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > And what “failures,” other than legislation that he was unable to get through Congress due to the unreasonable intransigence of the GOP congressmen, or the job market which he has little to no control over, would you cite as having caused said stir in the demographic? OWS was against the bailouts, which he didn’t start but followed up on. They are against the war in Afganistan, which he insists on fighting. He extended the Bush tax cuts, which is an issue with OWS. He shit he bed on the Patriot act and Guantanamo. He signed the NDAA. Institutionalized assassination of American citizens without due process. Ignored the Senate to pass ACTA… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/27 "2012-02-06T13:18:48Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Were the 260,000 Confederate soldiers killed in the Civil War entitled to due process? When you take up arms against the federal government and attack US soldiers, they will fire back and you might die. Funny that. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/28 "2012-02-06T15:14:19Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > OWS was against the bailouts, which he didn’t start but followed up on. He didn’t start the bank bailouts. The bailouts to the auto industry may have saved millions of jobs. > [@](#): > > They are against the war in Afganistan, which he insists on fighting. That’s already drawing to a close, and Iraq is done. > [@](#): > > He extended the Bush tax cuts, which is an issue with OWS. He has to work with a Congress that wanted them. Hardly his fault. > [@](#): > > He shit he bed on the Patriot act and Guantanamo. He can’t repeal the Patriot Act by himself. As for Gitmo, the GOP undercut funding that would have placed the detainees elsewhere. Again, beyond his control. [/quote] > [@](#): > > He signed the NDAA. …a national-security act which contains one provision that various legal scholars disagree as to how much power it gives to arrest and detain American citizens. Rivkin and Casey’s [position](http://justourfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/bill%E2%80%99s-detainee-provisions-reaffirm-the-law-of-war/) invokes certain Supreme Court precedents. You may argue the morality of the position, but that’s another topic. > [@](#): > > Institutionalized assassination of American citizens without due process. The dude forfeited any constitutional protection when he declared himself an enemy of America. You pays yo’ money, you takes yo’ chances. > [@](#): > > Ignored the Senate to pass ACTA… I’m not terribly happy about that, but these guys are trying to hold back the ocean with a pitchfork. I have bigger fish to fry. Again, the extension of the tax cuts, the Patriot Act and Gitmo were due to circumstances beyond his control, which anyone with a civics education over the sixth grade level could comprehend. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/29 "2012-02-06T15:15:27Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Depends. Was said citizen engaging in acts of war against US soldiers in the employ of a foreign power or group? I don’t think Anwar al-Awlaki was doing either of those things when he was killed. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/30 "2012-02-06T17:37:13Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > He didn’t start the bank bailouts. The bailouts to the auto industry may have saved millions of jobs. The question was which of Obama’s failed policies has caused a problem with young people. I said he continued the bailouts. Is this wrong? I could add that he has done nothing to hold the banks accountable. Or is that also Bush’s fault? > [@](#): > > That’s already drawing to a close, and Iraq is done. “Already” isn’t the term I would use for a war that has been going on for over 10 years. As I said, this is a Obama policy that is unpopular among the youth. > [@](#): > > He has to work with a Congress that wanted them. Hardly his fault. Where was his populist rhetoric back then? I guess he hadn’t read up on TR yet. He’s still fighting the same battle. I consider that a failure. Anyway, the youth of OWS finds that he sides with monied interests more often than not. > [@](#): > > He can’t repeal the Patriot Act by himself. As for Gitmo, the GOP undercut funding that would have placed the detainees elsewhere. Again, beyond his control Ok. A failure of his party, which he leads. > [@](#): > > …a national-security act which contains one provision that various legal scholars disagree as to how much power it gives to arrest and detain American citizens. Rivkin and Casey’s [position](http://justourfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/bill%E2%80%99s-detainee-provisions-reaffirm-the-law-of-war/) invokes certain Supreme Court precedents. You may argue the morality of the position, but that’s another topic. Imagine that. The Supreme Court fails to limit the authority of a government which it is a part of. > [@](#): > > The dude forfeited any constitutional protection when he declared himself an enemy of America. You pays yo’ money, you takes yo’ chances. I’m not necessarily unhappy that he is dead. But it is now precedent. The president can have an American citizen targeted for assassination without offering any proof of wrongdoing. > [@](#): > > m not terribly happy about that, but these guys are trying to hold back the ocean with a pitchfork. I have bigger fish to fry. Do you? Thats an incredible attitude to take in my opinion.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/31 "2012-02-06T17:43:15Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Imagine that. The Supreme Court fails to limit the authority of a government which it is a part of. SCOTUS limits the authority of the Federal government [all](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez) [the](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickerson_v._United_States) [time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/32 "2012-02-06T17:54:33Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Don’t forget that he ended the Iraq War too. > > But this is Evil Captor’s standard complaint against Obama and it shows up in multiple Elections threads. I honestly don’t know why he believes what he does when you look at Obama’s resume (which you’ve helpfully posted). Would McCain have done any of those things? I think not. I believe Obama is a Reagan Republican because he governs like one. Obamacare, for example, is largely based on Mitt Romney’s Republican public health care plan that he instituted in Massachusetts. The single most progressive item in Obama’s health care plan … the public option … was jettisoned early on, and without much effort from the right to get it removed. The health care plan also does virtually nothing to address the rising cost of health care. Obama sold out out to the health insurance companies, just like the Republicans would have. Frank-Dodd was passed by Congress, it wasn’t really Obama’s baby, but it also did not address the ability of banks to gamble with depositor’s money, which means we could have another such crisis tomorrow. It hardly gives Obama any progressive cred to have signed it. And it doesn’t help that his chief financial advisor is Tim Geithner, who would have been a top candidate for any Republican president as well. Obama pulled out of Iraq … on George W. Bush’s timetable. And he wanted to stay longer, he was kinda kicked out by the Iraqi government. Obama’s Justice Department has been able to find no evidence of criminal wrongdoing in the 2008 collapse despite widespread allegations of massive fraud. How very Republican of him. Obama did not allow the Bush tax cuts to sunset. Granted, the Republicans fought for them like their very lives depended on them, but letting the tax cuts sunset would have been the very jewel in the crown of the Obama Administration’s fiscal policy. Well, if he wasn’t a Reagan Republican. Obama has approved the killing of American citizens without due process. And him a Constitutional scholar! It was more of a studied political move, but if you can kill us without due process on foreign soil, why not on American soil? Is it the process or the location that matters? Once again, he acts in a very Republican manner. Signing the NDAA was a very Republican thing to do. Face it … the man is a Republican … a Reagan Republican, but still … ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/33 "2012-02-06T19:11:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > SCOTUS limits the authority of the Federal government [all](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez) [the](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickerson_v._United_States) [time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission). I said that particular instance was a failure of the SC to restrain power. I didn’t say it never restrained power. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/34 "2012-02-06T19:11:35Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Obamacare, for example, is largely based on Mitt Romney’s Republican public health care plan that he instituted in Massachusetts. The single most progressive item in Obama’s health care plan … the public option … was jettisoned early on, and without much effort from the right to get it removed. The health care plan also does virtually nothing to address the rising cost of health care. Obama sold out out to the health insurance companies, just like the Republicans would have. > > Frank-Dodd was passed by Congress, it wasn’t really Obama’s baby, but it also did not address the ability of banks to gamble with depositor’s money, which means we could have another such crisis tomorrow. It hardly gives Obama any progressive cred to have signed it. And it doesn’t help that his chief financial advisor is Tim Geithner, who would have been a top candidate for any Republican president as well. So wait. The health care plan, which was passed by Congress, is Obama’s because of the failed provision, but the Frank-Dodd bill, which also was passed by Congress, isn’t Obama’s because it runs contrary to your objections to him? Ummm, I don’t think you know how passing bills work. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Obama pulled out of Iraq … on George W. Bush’s timetable. And he wanted to stay longer, he was kinda kicked out by the Iraqi government. The timetable was already there in Iraq and he followed it, nothing wrong with that. And he’s established a new on in Afghanistan, so there you have proof that Obama’s winding down the wars. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Obama did not allow the Bush tax cuts to sunset. Granted, the Republicans fought for them like their very lives depended on them, but letting the tax cuts sunset would have been the very jewel in the crown of the Obama Administration’s fiscal policy. Well, if he wasn’t a Reagan Republican. Did you know that there were other things at stake too? I ask because I genuinely cannot tell if you know that or not. The GOP held hostage tax benefits for millions of middle class families and the debt limit. Obama didn’t just cave to the GOP, he weighed the benefits of extending the Bush tax cuts vs. the economy and felt he couldn’t let one die with the other Obama has approved the killing of American citizens without due process. And him a Constitutional scholar! It was more of a studied political move, but if you can kill us without due process on foreign soil, why not on American soil? Is it the process or the location that matters? Once again, he acts in a very Republican manner. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/35 "2012-02-14T15:18:06Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Well, Romney will also sign whatever a Republican congress sends him. No less an authority on GOP politics than Grover Norquist [agrees with you](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_02/his_masters_voice035381.php): > [@](#): > > We are not auditioning for fearless leader. We don’t need a president to tell us in what direction to go. We know what direction to go. We want the Ryan budget. … We just need a president to sign this stuff. We don’t need someone to think it up or design it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616/36 "2012-02-14T15:48:33Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I said that particular instance was a failure of the SC to restrain power. I didn’t say it never restrained power. You presented it as though the failure of the Supreme Court to restrain power once means the system is irretrievably broken or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-monthly-what-if-obama-loses/611616.md?page=1)