# Washington Post: Russian propaganda effort helped spread ‘fake news’ during election, experts say **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 25, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945 "2016-11-25T03:41:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/381 "2016-12-16T21:04:39Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > for historical reference - > > If, as POTUS, I had discovered Russian hackers, I would notify the FBI, NSA, CIA, the leader of the U.S. Senator, and the leader of the U.S. House. _Yo, Guys! I’m up to my ass in Putin people. One of youse guys should dealing with this problem, and dealing with it NOW. And I want it done before 2016 rolls around. Any questions?_. Or do what clowns across the country are doing. Blame Trump. And maybe the DNC will be a bit more careful with what they write in the future since they know they don’t have the brains to pick a secure password. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/382 "2016-12-16T21:07:04Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > for historical reference - > > If, as POTUS, I had discovered Russian hackers, I would notify the FBI, NSA, CIA, the leader of the U.S. Senator, and the leader of the U.S. House. _Yo, Guys! I’m up to my ass in Putin people. One of youse guys should dealing with this problem, and dealing with it NOW. And I want it done before 2016 rolls around. Any questions?_. How is that any different than what was actually done? It sounds exactly the same as what happened. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/383 "2016-12-16T21:07:07Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Ummm…complain that illegal voting cost him the popular vote? He can’t even win graciously. Speaking of which, it looks pretty fishy that during the Michigan recount so much of the city of Detroit’s votes couldn’t be reconciled. Was there systemic fraud? Russians working in Detroit? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/384 "2016-12-16T21:19:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > How is that any different than what was actually done? It sounds exactly the same as what happened. Exactly. **doorhinge** isn’t a democrat. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/385 "2016-12-17T03:39:49Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Russian meddling is said to be [all over Europe’s major democracies](http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-cyber-warfare-election-hack-1.3896613). Coincidence that Trump-style extremism is on the rise in Europe? Maybe, maybe not. France’s far-right Trump equivalent, Marie Le Pen, recently borrowed nine million euros for her campaign from a Moscow bank linked to Putin. I don’t doubt that Russia likes the far right parties in Europe, but alluding to those actually weakens your argument. Those parties grew because of the failures of Europe’s political elite. I’m sure Russian help doesn’t hurt, but as in the US, their rise is primarily the fault of political elites thinking they know what’s best for us and thinking we are too stupid to understand so they have to lie and do stuff out of the public eye. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/386 "2016-12-18T00:34:54Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > How is that any different than what was actually done? It sounds exactly the same as what happened. Exactly. What, exactly, did Obama do? How did Obama end the Russian interference in the U.S. election? How did Obama stay on top of this issue until it was settled in the U.S.'s favor? What is Obama’s golf handicap? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/387 "2016-12-18T01:44:21Z")
You proposed what seems to be the exact same thing Obama did; and you hilariously seem to think that he’s dodging tough decisions while you would take executive action! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/389 "2016-12-19T16:00:23Z")
for historical reference - > [@doorhinge](#): > > If, as POTUS, I had discovered Russian hackers, I would notify the FBI, NSA, CIA, the leader of the U.S. Senator, and the leader of the U.S. House. _Yo, Guys! I’m up to my ass in Putin people. One of youse guys should dealing with this problem, and dealing with it NOW. And I want it done before 2016 rolls around. Any questions?_. (Underline added) > [@Ravenman](#): > > How is that any different than what was actually done? It sounds exactly the same as what happened. Exactly. > [@Ravenman](#): > > You proposed what seems to be the exact same thing Obama did; and you hilariously seem to think that he’s dodging tough decisions while you would take executive action! It still looks like I would have demanded an immediate, and effective, response BEFORE 2016 rolled around. I would have wanted something done NOW. But that’s me. It appears that ol’ JugearS preferred to take a wait-and-see attitude. And why not, it was common knowledge that Hillary could not, under any circumstances, lose the 2016 general election. It was in the bag. It was a sure thing. It was a done deal. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/390 "2016-12-19T17:06:56Z")
So, we got a guy here getting inaugurated who refuses to believe the Russia story, but at the same time asserts that millions of illegal votes were cast for Hillary. There is evidence for the first, none whatsoever for the second. Cognitive dissonance, my friends, the number one threat to the Republic! When your Mother’s March Against CD comes to your door, give! And give generously! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/391 "2016-12-19T17:41:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, we got a guy here getting inaugurated who refuses to believe the Russia story, but at the same time asserts that millions of illegal votes were cast for Hillary. There is evidence for the first, none whatsoever for the second. > > Cognitive dissonance, my friends, the number one threat to the Republic! When your Mother’s March Against CD comes to your door, give! And give generously! I believe all of chumps have already given to the Jill Stein/Green Party’s _Elect Hillary Recount Fund_. ---
**Author:** ![BrerRobert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@BrerRobert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrerRobert)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/392 "2016-12-19T18:38:22Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Originally Posted by Paul Krugman: as far as I can tell, no major Republican figure was even willing to criticize Mr. Trump when he directly asked Russia to hack Mrs. Clinton. That’s because it didn’t happen. It seems Kruggles has been ingesting some of that fake news that is so hot right now. Leaving aside the obvious -that the statement Trump made was a JOKE- what he said was that maybe the Russians could find Clinton’s missing emails, emails which Clinton had deleted. Since they had been deleted from her machines they wouldn’t be found there, so there was not even, within Trump’s joke, the implied request that Russia hack Mrs. Clinton, let alone a direct request. The context of the statement was the reports populating the 24 hour news cycle at the time about hacking that the Russians had allegedly already accomplished. The establishment propaganda machine’s continuous repetition of the narrative that Trump asked Russia to hack Clinton can certainly make people believe that it is true, but it doesn’t actually make it true. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/393 "2016-12-19T18:54:19Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > It still looks like I would have demanded an immediate, and effective, response BEFORE 2016 rolled around. Oh, I didn’t know you would have pounded your fist on the table before failing to make any decision or giving any directions! That’s TOTALLY different! Maybe President **doorhinge** ’s health care policy is, “Hey HHS! Get this straightened out next week! Lower prices and better coverage for everyone, NOW!” [Furrow brow in unpleasant manner] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/394 "2016-12-19T18:59:24Z")
Hey, they got a plan for that! First thing you do, you cut taxes. 'Course, there’s the infrastructure to be rebuilt, and the military to rebuild, which means even _more_ tax cuts to pay for those. But once the financial sector is released from their burdens, their creative powers will be unleashed and everybody will get rich! ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/395 "2016-12-19T19:17:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hey, they got a plan for that! First thing you do, you cut taxes. 'Course, there’s the infrastructure to be rebuilt, and the military to rebuild, which means even _more_ tax cuts to pay for those. But once the financial sector is released from their burdens, their creative powers will be unleashed and everybody will get rich! If only living ‘through the looking glass’ weren’t so deleterious to humans’ emotional well-being. (There certainly isn’t going to be any affordable care available to the average person having to process the double-think, for the consequent damage.) ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/396 "2016-12-19T19:24:16Z")
> [@BrerRobert](#): > > That’s because it didn’t happen. It seems Kruggles has been ingesting some of that fake news that is so hot right now. Leaving aside the obvious -that the statement Trump made was a JOKE- what he said was that maybe the Russians could find Clinton’s missing emails, emails which Clinton had deleted. Since they had been deleted from her machines they wouldn’t be found there, so there was not even, within Trump’s joke, the implied request that Russia hack Mrs. Clinton, let alone a direct request. The context of the statement was the reports populating the 24 hour news cycle at the time about hacking that the Russians had allegedly already accomplished. The establishment propaganda machine’s continuous repetition of the narrative that Trump asked Russia to hack Clinton can certainly make people believe that it is true, but it doesn’t actually make it true. You can sure put a lot of words into a simplistic message. “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference here in an apparent reference to Mrs. Clinton’s deleted emails. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.” He said this. Joke or not, it was wrong, especially for a US presidential candidate on the stump. He never apologized. But beyond that his subsequent behavior suggests that he was not “joking” as you want to insist. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/397 "2016-12-19T19:38:08Z")
A fuller clip of that conference shows it wasn’t a “throwaway” like when he said it on the stump. He doubled down after follow up questions, insisting on his version. That was _before_ no such thing ever happened, ever, so there! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/398 "2016-12-19T19:42:29Z")
I think that on the basis of the “Hey, it was just a joke, lighten up!” defense, we should also apply this standard to the current President. Specifically, I propose that “If you like your health insurance you can keep it,” “The riots were started by an inflammatory video,” and “Syria cannot cross this red line” should all be henceforth considered statements intended to be humorous. Therefore, Republicans should just knock it off with the criticism of Obama’s positions on Obamacare, Benghazi, and Syria. Seriously, guys, just lighten up. Also, Bill Clinton was totally pulling your leg with the “I never had sex with that woman” thing, and you just didn’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/399 "2016-12-19T19:53:14Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think that on the basis of the “Hey, it was just a joke, lighten up!” defense, we should also apply this standard to the current President. > > Specifically, I propose that “If you like your health insurance you can keep it,” “The riots were started by an inflammatory video,” and “Syria cannot cross this red line” should all be henceforth considered statements intended to be humorous. Therefore, Republicans should just knock it off with the criticism of Obama’s positions on Obamacare, Benghazi, and Syria. Seriously, guys, just lighten up. > > Also, Bill Clinton was totally pulling your leg with the “I never had sex with that woman” thing, and you just didn’t get it. Everyone knew Obama’s red line was a joke. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/400 "2016-12-19T20:17:14Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh, I didn’t know you would have pounded your fist on the table before failing to make any decision or giving any directions! That’s TOTALLY different! > > Maybe President **doorhinge** ’s health care policy is, “Hey HHS! Get this straightened out next week! Lower prices and better coverage for everyone, NOW!” [Furrow brow in unpleasant manner] (underline added) I didn’t know that, either. Do you believe pounding your fist would be more effective? Are you suggesting that Russians exert some kind of influenced over HHS? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945/401 "2016-12-19T20:23:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (underline added) > > I didn’t know that, either. Do you believe pounding your fist would be more effective? > > Are you suggesting that Russians exert some kind of influenced over HHS? You don’t get it: I didn’t fully appreciate how you would have exerted your leadership as President by _insisting_ that the problem be fixed. Foolish me, I thought you would have provided some guidance on _how_ it ought to be fixed. I now understand that it is the job of the President to simply say that problems ought to be fixed, in a very stern tone of voice, and also provide a date at which the problems need to be fixed. Your point that Obama has not been governing in this manner is well-taken. He’s foolishly been spending time on trying to understand _how_ problems ought to be fixed, and _thinking_ about the implications of various solutions. What an idiot! He should have just been _setting deadlines_! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-post-russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/772945.md?page=21)