# Washington Redskins - Time to change the name? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 11, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362 "2006-08-11T22:08:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/41 "2006-08-13T08:40:24Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Wht does it really matter that much??? [/QUOTE] In the grand scheme of things, not a whit. It does make text easier to read, and therefore furthers understanding. Your call. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/42 "2006-08-13T08:52:23Z")
[QUOTE=TheOnlySaneOne] I think they should have gone for it, myself. All it would have taken was a small amount of money to change the helmets, chump change for an NFL team. Just a few hundred thousand dollars, and they would have had more support from Native Americans, with minimal grumbling from the fans. [/QUOTE] And that’s the crux of the issue. They don’t care what you think. They don’t care what anybody thinks. They are sticking with the name they’ve had for 80+ years. All the grumbling in the world means nothing if the owners continue to make money. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/43 "2006-08-13T23:33:55Z")
They would make a fortune on jerseys. Basketball changes unis a lot to make money. Of course they don’t admit that is the reason. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/44 "2006-08-13T23:59:56Z")
Everybody who thinks they should change their name should get their pennies together and buy the name from the team. If it is worth that much to you, put your money where your mouth is and make Dan Sndger (and Larry Dolan, who owns the Cleveland Indians) an offer. Synder won’t take it, but Dolan has been looking for revenue from every source possible, including spare change from the sofa cushions in the team offices, so he’d probably listen to a reasonable offer. Whenever this type of thread surfaces I point to a Sports Illustrated article from February 2002 which contained a poll which said that most Indian people were not the least bit offended by the name Redskins or by Chief Wahoo. If the people who are supposed to be offended are not actually offended, it seems very silly to insist that the teams change their names. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/45 "2006-08-14T13:34:09Z")
This might be a question for GQ, but what is the legality of making a private company change it’s name? Could a court order Snyder to change the name? Isn’t a free speech issue, or could this be a “hate” speech issue and ruled that way? Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/46 "2006-08-14T14:03:49Z")
[QUOTE=zamboniracer] Whenever this type of thread surfaces I point to a Sports Illustrated article from February 2002 which contained a poll which said that most Indian people were not the least bit offended by the name Redskins or by Chief Wahoo. [/QUOTE] I don’t doubt that, but what about the folks who are offended? Again, when a team could be called the Stalwarts or something far more cool but universally inoffensive, why not just go with that? Why stick with an athletic team name that is guaranteed to offend somebody, even if the numbers of offended are few? Money is an argument, I’ll admit, but if it’s really only a game, seems to me the classy thing to do is come up with a better name. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/47 "2006-08-14T14:21:55Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] I don’t doubt that, but what about the folks who are offended? Again, when a team could be called the Stalwarts or something far more cool but universally inoffensive, why not just go with that? Why stick with an athletic team name that is guaranteed to offend somebody, even if the numbers of offended are few? Money is an argument, I’ll admit, but if it’s really only a game, seems to me the classy thing to do is come up with a better name. [/QUOTE] Why should a for profit enterprise change its product to appease those who are not its customers, when its customers are perfectly happy with the product as is? You cannot please everyone. A businessman can live with a few disgruntled malcontents don’t like the product’s name when he’s raking in much profit from those who do like its name. It seems to me the classy thing to do would be to work to better the American Indians’ living conditions rather than waste time and energy complaining about sports team logos that the great majority of the Indians themselves are not too worked up about. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/48 "2006-08-14T14:48:43Z")
[QUOTE=Dob] This might be a question for GQ, but what is the legality of making a private company change it’s name? Could a court order Snyder to change the name? Isn’t a free speech issue, or could this be a “hate” speech issue and ruled that way? Anyone know? [/QUOTE] The government can’t force the company to change its name. Should the lawsuit be successful, the Washington Redskins company is still not likely to change its name. All Harjo can seek is to have the “Redskins” trademark registrations cancelled. And all that means is that it will be harder for the company to stop counterfeit “Redskins” paraphernalia. It’s almost purely a symbolic gesture and I believe Harjo admits as such. I believe that at least part of their intent is to create a record that shows that the name is socially unacceptable to significant numbers of people. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/49 "2006-08-14T17:04:06Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] And that’s the crux of the issue. They don’t care what you think. They don’t care what anybody thinks. They are sticking with the name they’ve had for 80+ years. All the grumbling in the world means nothing if the owners continue to make money. [/QUOTE] I think they very much care what you think. That is the crux of the matter. If most of the fans wanted the name to be changed, it would be in a heart beat. But the fans love the 'skins and the name, and there is zero backlash in this town against the name. So it stays. (BTW, Go Cowboys!!!) ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/50 "2006-08-14T17:08:56Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] I don’t doubt that, but what about the folks who are offended? Again, when a team could be called the Stalwarts or something far more cool but universally inoffensive, why not just go with that? Why stick with an athletic team name that is guaranteed to offend somebody, even if the numbers of offended are few? Money is an argument, I’ll admit, but if it’s really only a game, seems to me the classy thing to do is come up with a better name. [/QUOTE] But where does the PC patrol stop? Should Erie PA. change it’s name if 1% of the Erie tribe (if they still are around) don’t like it? What about the Cowboys? What if a group of Cowboys feels that that big blue star is offensve? Should that be changed? You can’t make everyone happy, and the Native Americans don’t seem all that fired up over this. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/51 "2006-08-14T20:22:16Z")
[QUOTE=asterion] **Sunrazor** , do you mean the BIA or another department? (Is there another department? I’m just used to it being the BIA.) [/QUOTE] The BIA is a bureau within the Interior Department. My bad for the lack of specificity. The BIA has been called the greatest example of ineptitude and corruption in the U.S. Government, and I do believe that’s a direct result of the ineptitude and corruption of the entire DOI. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/52 "2006-08-14T20:40:19Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Indians, sure. But why Warriors or Braves, both of which refer to military roles, not ethnicities? [/QUOTE] Maybe I didn’t express myself very clearly. What I mean is exactly what you said: “Redskins” probably is construed today to be less than respectful of an ethnic group of people. Injuns, savages and squaws are other terms used specifically for American Indians that are uncomplimentary or cartoonish. But Indians, Braves, Seminoles, Illini, Warriors and other team mascots named after American Indians are not. Here’s the problem: Eliminate “Redskins” in the name of good taste and political correctness, and where does it stop? My high school in Yuma, Colo., still uses the Indians mascot – and most American Indian activists actually prefer the phrase “American Indian” to “native American,” because they know their ancestors migrated here from Asia, and because some of us of European descent have been here long enough to qualify as native (I’m a 4th generation Coloradoan and my family has been here since just after the Mayflower landed.) To further elucidate a previous point: Given the grinding poverty, oppressive alcoholism and legal purgatory most American Indians live in today, the names of a few athletic teams are the least of their worries. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/53 "2006-08-14T20:55:48Z")
> [@](#): > > BTW, Go Cowboys!!!) Them’s pitting words young man! (or woman)! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/54 "2006-08-14T21:33:59Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] But Indians, Braves, Seminoles, Illini, Warriors and other team mascots named after American Indians are not. [/QUOTE] Not picking on you, just wondering. How the hell did ‘warrior’ become the sole domain of native Americans? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/55 "2006-08-14T21:54:55Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] But Indians, Braves, Seminoles, Illini, Warriors and other team mascots named after American Indians are not. [/QUOTE] Not picking on you, just wondering. How the hell did ‘warrior’ become the sole domain of native Americans? ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/56 "2006-08-17T06:27:45Z")
[QUOTE=spifflog] But where does the PC patrol stop? Should Erie PA. change it’s name if 1% of the Erie tribe (if they still are around) don’t like it? What about the Cowboys? What if a group of Cowboys feels that that big blue star is offensve? Should that be changed? You can’t make everyone happy, and the Native Americans don’t seem all that fired up over this. [/QUOTE] - I demand that the New York Jets change their name, as it is offensive to the air travel industry! - I vote that the Redskins become the “Washington Foreskins”. Then they can keep calling themselves the 'Skins. - We get a similar issue every so often down here at Florida State, people arguing that the team name should be changed from “Seminoles”, that somehow it is offensive. I’ve seen little demonstrations (a number of years ago) outside the stadium, on the way into a football game. I’ve heard of Native American tribes in other states complain about the use of the name. [But the Seminole Tribe of Florida **supports** FSU’s use of the Seminole name](http://www.fsu.edu/~univrel/seminoles/pages/timeline.html) (look at the later dates on the page, starting with 1991, and especially 1999). Seems like that ought to wrap up the issue down here, at least (yet it still pops up from time to time, typically from parties not affiliated with the FL Seminole Tribe). ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/57 "2006-08-17T10:04:42Z")
I don’t think the name of the Redskins should be changed at all. I can see a slight problem with the Cleveland Indians logo. If we want to talk about changing that, I can understand that one. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/58 "2006-08-17T10:07:36Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Just once I’d like the owners of a team to tell those caliing for a name change like this one to fuck off and take whatever happens rather than caving to PC idiocy. If you don’t like the name, don’t buy their product. And by the by, I own a T-shirt that has the logo for the Atlanta Crackers on the front. [/QUOTE] Isn’t the term for someone that’s from Georgia “cracker” like a “Hoosier” is a person from Indiana? ---
**Author:** ![Chicklett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/45deac/32.png) [@Chicklett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicklett)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/59 "2006-08-22T00:59:36Z")
> [@](#): > > What about the Cowboys? What if a group of Cowboys feels that that big blue star is offensve? I believe Native Americans find the use of certain symbols (like the headdress) offensive because they are religious symbols. Would you have a team called “The Popes” and wave around a crucifix and a communion wafer? I find the name “Redskins” highly offensive. Would you name a team “The Blackskins?” And that caricature of the grinning Cleveland Indian has got to go. I hate it. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362/60 "2006-08-22T01:21:53Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Not picking on you, just wondering. How the hell did ‘warrior’ become the sole domain of native Americans? [/QUOTE] Unlike my post above, I don’t have a cite for this but IMHO the entire movement to ban the Indian names and logos is based on sloppy thinking including considering the name “Warriors” to be strictly an Indian name. Oakland fans should be thankful that the activists don’t consider “Raiders” to be derisive Indian name the same way they consider Warriors to be an Indian word. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/washington-redskins-time-to-change-the-name/368362.md?page=4)