# Wasn’t There a Time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 25, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897 "2018-09-25T16:41:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/21 "2018-09-26T19:58:56Z")
To go back to the OP, the name I most recall is Douglas Ginsburg, who stepped aside as a SCOTUS nominee in 1988 after his very occasional cannabis use in the 1960s and 70s came to light. Today I imagine he would have been pressured to hang in there as opposed to stepping aside for Anthony Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/22 "2018-09-26T21:30:50Z")
Bill Clinton’s first nominee for Attorney General was Zoe Baird. It came out during the confirmation process that she had hired previously hired an illegal immigrant, and had not paid taxes on the income she gave her. This torpedoed her nomination. Then, Clinton’s 2nd nominee, Kimba Wood, had also used an illegal immigrant worker in her home. But it had not been illegal at the time, and she had paid the required taxes [[cite](https://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/06/us/judge-s-hiring-of-illegal-alien-in-80-s-did-not-violate-immigration-law.html)]. Nevertheless, she [withdrew](https://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/06/us/judge-withdraws-from-clinton-list-for-justice-post.html) from consideration because it _looked bad_. Thus, we ended up with Janet Reno. So Kimba Wood should get a nod for avoiding the mere appearance of impropriety. Although I doubt she was given a choice. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/23 "2018-09-27T18:44:06Z")
> [@Temporary\_Name](#): > > **Wasn’t There a Time?** > > I was so sure there was a time when important and accomplished men (and less often women) whom were being considered for important roles within our federal government were expected to live up to the standard of “above reproach”. It seems like not so long ago, if a candidate was accused of some major scandal, say one that involved victimizing a female classmate for example, they would pull their name from consideration for the good of the party and the nation. Making a statement to the effect of: “While these accusations are false and absurd - - - I am hereby withdrawing myself from consideration because I believe this great nation does not need to get bogged down in salacious hearings and testimony….” They believed the dignity of the post they wished to fill was more important than their own personal ambition. Are you familiar with a man named Ted Kennedy? Let’s recap. A member of the Kennedy family, brother of John and Robert. On 7/18/1969, he and other wealthy, connected men were at a party with the “Boiler Room Girls”, a group of attractive young women who had worked on Robert’s presidential campaign. (I assume we are familiar with the Kennedy family and how they treated women; we’ll leave unsaid what the Boiler Room Girls’ “work” consisted of.) Ted Kennedy left the party driving with one of those women, Mary Jo Kopechne. He had been drinking. He swerved off a road and the car went into the water. He got out of the car; Kopechne did not. Rather than contacting the police as soon as possible for a rapid attempt to save Kopechne’s life, he returned to the Kennedy compound and the beginnings of a cover-up were organized. Kopechne died. Like the rest of the country, I’ve watched with a mixture of amusement and despair as the behavior President Trump, former Senator Al Franken, and other prominent men as been revealed. But none of them ever actually _killed a woman_. Ted Kennedy did. And did he drop out of politics? He did not. For most of the next 40 years, he was a Senator and unofficial leader of the Democrats’ leftward side. So like others, I agree that there was not a time. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/24 "2018-09-28T12:40:32Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Um, well, we have Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court, so I’d say something similar has occurred no less than 27 years ago. While the cases are in many ways similar, the rationales are very different. The perspective of most men in 1991, regarding Clarence Thomas, was that Anita Hill was a lying whore. This wasn’t a minority opinion espoused only by the worst of the worst; it was the consensus among the political and media class, and that was how women who made such claims were usually regarded. Liberal columnists were using terms like “a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty” to describe Hill. As with Blasey Ford, there were supporting witnesses that weren’t called and all that, but the Republicans and more than a few Democrats took the position that Thomas should be confirmed because Hill was a dishonest bitch, and I use these mean terms deliberately not because I agree (she was obviously telling the truth) but because that is the attitude with which she was viewed. Basically, they were saying that of course no judge could be confirmed if such accusations were valid, so they could not be valid. The ferocity of the attacks on Hill were a product of the time. People did not believe this stuff happened. In the case of Blasey Ford there has been very little of the notion she’s a liar; most Republicans have not openly said she’s dishonest. A few have but it’s not the consensus. Kavanaugh will be confirmed not because the accusations are lies, but because the accusations don’t matter. Kavanaugh is totally unsuitable for the position by any logical standard; not only has he obviously committed a number of sexual assaults, but he is a liar of titanic magnitude, has inexplicable financial shadiness, and rather obviously doesn’t have the temperament or attitude to be an honest and impartial arbiter of the law. However, that stuff no longer matters. The Republicans don’t care about his character or if he’s a rapist; what matters is ensuring the Supreme Court will cover for Trump and make abortion illegal. To sum up, here’s the thing; the Thomas-Hill hearings MATTERED. They were critically important in determining if Thomas would be confirmed, and so Republicans could not believe Hill or else they would have had to vote against Thomas. The hearings were why the vote was so close (52-48) even though prior to them it would have been more like 90-10. Yesterday’s hearings absolutely DID NOT MATTER. They were purely for show, and I am being totally serious when I say that had an actual video of Brett Kavanaugh raping a young girl been shown it wouldn’t have made any difference. The votes are already determined and every Republican senator will vote to confirm no matter what, even though many of them probably believe Blasey Ford and think Kavanaugh is a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/25 "2018-09-28T16:42:43Z")
Are you familiar with a woman named Laura Welsh? In 1963 she ran a stop sign and killed the driver of the oncoming car, Michael Douglas. In the year 2001, under the transparent alias of Laura Bush, she became First Lady of the United States, cheered and lauded wherever she went. Like the rest of the country, I’ve watched with a mixture of amusement and despair as the behavior President Trump, former Senator Al Franken, and other prominent men as been revealed. But none of them ever actually killed a man. Laura Welsh did. And did she drop out of politics? She did not. For most of the next 40 years, she engaged in nonstop politicking and campaign activities, unofficial lead woman of the Republican side. But her killing of an innocent man took place when she was a teenager. And as we all know, nothing you do as a teenager counts for anything. Girls will be girls. Paid for by the Committee to Stamp Out Whataboutism. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/26 "2018-09-29T01:46:16Z")
> [@](#): > > The Republicans don’t care about his character or if he’s a rapist; what matters is ensuring the Supreme Court will cover for Trump and make abortion illegal. Cut off the last four words of that sentence. The one and only reason Trump nominated Kavanaugh is that he wants it to be illegal to investigate the President: That’s all that mattered to him. As for the Republicans in the Senate, the single most important trait in a Supreme Court justice, to them, is that he will _not_ make abortion illegal. If the Court did that, what could the Republicans cry about to their abused base? They need abortion to remain legal so they can keep on complaining about it and pretending to wish it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/27 "2018-09-29T02:39:32Z")
All the founding fathers were doing bad things. Illegitimate kids, affairs with woman. Fathering children with slaves. Holding slaves. Money/debt issues. They were basically jerks, the lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/28 "2018-09-29T12:47:40Z")
I reckon every man ever had a statue made of him was one sort of sumbitch or another. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/29 "2018-09-30T12:49:48Z")
There was a time when we thought it was better - political theater got better reviews. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/30 "2018-10-07T17:54:49Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Paid for by the Committee to Stamp Out Whataboutism. … which faithfully offers “What about Laura Bush?” whenever Ted Kennedy / Mary Jo Kopechne comes up. Our committee hasn’t yet made much progress in comparing Laura’s situation with Teddy’s abandoning his still-living victim, lying, orchestrated coverup, etc. But we’ve been on the case nearly 50 years - so any day now. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/31 "2018-10-08T00:54:56Z")
Huh. Took you a week to pick up on sarcasm. Should I just stick to puns? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/32 "2018-10-08T15:48:35Z")
The idea that having enough smoke around you is a reason to drop out is crazy. Should Trump have dropped out because he told Billy Bush a dirty joke, should Obama have dropped out because he was born in Kenya, should McCain have dropped out because he brain washed by the Vietnamese, should Bush have dropped out because he got favoritism in the National Guard, should Bill Clinton have dropped out because he was running drugs in Arkansas? High profile politics attracts crazy allegations, if we force good people like Kavanaugh out of public life because of baseless allegations we will have fewer good people and more baseless allegations. Exactly the opposite of what we need. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/33 "2018-10-08T16:07:28Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The idea that having enough smoke around you is a reason to drop out is crazy. Should Trump have dropped out because he told Billy Bush a dirty joke, should Obama have dropped out because he was born in Kenya, should McCain have dropped out because he brain washed by the Vietnamese, should Bush have dropped out because he got favoritism in the National Guard, should Bill Clinton have dropped out because he was running drugs in Arkansas? > High profile politics attracts crazy allegations, if we force good people like Kavanaugh out of public life because of baseless allegations we will have fewer good people and more baseless allegations. Exactly the opposite of what we need. Someone made a “baseless allegation” that Trump “told Billy Bush a dirty joke”? Can’t say I’m familiar with this rumor. Is the alleged joke related to the audio recording in which Trump boasts that fame entitles him to kiss women and grab their genitalia without their consent, or is it a separate incident? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/34 "2018-10-08T16:19:14Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Someone made a “baseless allegation” that Trump “told Billy Bush a dirty joke”? > > Can’t say I’m familiar with this rumor. Is the alleged joke related to the audio recording in which Trump boasts that fame entitles him to kiss women and grab their genitalia without their consent, or is it a separate incident? I’m surprised you didn’t hear, [it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_Access_Hollywood_tape)was all over the news ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/35 "2018-10-08T16:28:41Z")
I remember thinking last week, employing Solomonic reasoning, that if Brett Kavanaugh were truly worthy of the court, he would have withdrawn his nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/36 "2018-10-08T16:49:38Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > if we force good people like Kavanaugh out of public life And yet if he hadn’t been confirmed, Kavanaugh would have returned to a lifetime appointment on the second highest court in the land. In our actual world, Ford cannot return home because of death threats. Seems to me that the real world works in exactly the opposite way to what you describe. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/37 "2018-10-08T19:56:09Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > And yet if he hadn’t been confirmed, Kavanaugh would have returned to a lifetime appointment on the second highest court in the land. > > In our actual world, Ford cannot return home because of death threats. > > Seems to me that the real world works in exactly the opposite way to what you describe. Kavanaugh stepping down would have been an admission and there is no way an admitted rapist would have been allowed to stay on as a judge. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/38 "2018-10-08T22:23:21Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Kavanaugh stepping down would have been an admission and there is no way an admitted rapist would have been allowed to stay on as a judge. First, there’s a difference between not being confirmed and stepping down. Second, stepping down is not an admission of rape. Third, Kavanaugh would still in be public life either way because the Republicans wouldn’t impeach him if he stabbed Ford at the hearing. Fourth, you’re calling Kavanaugh a good person and I submit that the evidence shows that he is not a good person whether or not he was guilty of this particular crime. Fifth, exalting someone who is not a good person simply because he is ideologically on your side is what led to Trump becoming President, an action your side will regret in the long term. Sixth, these are exactly the sort of false equivalences that make your side look like monsters. Perhaps that is your short term goal. I still believe that America is not yet sufficiently broken to make that a long term goal. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/39 "2018-10-08T22:56:30Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Are you familiar with a man named Ted Kennedy? > > Let’s recap. A member of the Kennedy family, brother of John and Robert. On 7/18/1969, he and other wealthy, connected men were at a party with the “Boiler Room Girls”, a group of attractive young women who had worked on Robert’s presidential campaign. (I assume we are familiar with the Kennedy family and how they treated women; we’ll leave unsaid what the Boiler Room Girls’ “work” consisted of.) Or we could instead _not_ leave unsaid what the [Boiler Room Girls](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiler_Room_Girls)’ work consisted of, and perhaps ask you what you were (or were not) implying. Either way. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897/40 "2018-10-09T16:01:18Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > First, there’s a difference between not being confirmed and stepping down. Second, stepping down is not an admission of rape. Third, Kavanaugh would still in be public life either way because the Republicans wouldn’t impeach him if he stabbed Ford at the hearing. Fourth, you’re calling Kavanaugh a good person and I submit that the evidence shows that he is not a good person whether or not he was guilty of this particular crime. Fifth, exalting someone who is not a good person simply because he is ideologically on your side is what led to Trump becoming President, an action your side will regret in the long term. Sixth, these are exactly the sort of false equivalences that make your side look like monsters. Perhaps that is your short term goal. I still believe that America is not yet sufficiently broken to make that a long term goal. If he didn’t do it why should he step down? If he had stepped down everyone would assume that the charges were true. Everyone who knows Kavanaugh that I heard from spoke of him in [glowing](http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/judge-kavanaughs-friends-describe-man-of-humility-service-and-faith) terms. If he is innocent of the charges than he seems like a very good person and the kind our country desperately needs more of. You seem to believe that because he is of a different ideology than you then he must be a bad person. Part of the reason we have Trump is that when you attack every Republican as a dangerous, racist, evil, fanatic people stop listening and a genuinely bad person like Trump will slip through. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasn-t-there-a-time/821897.md?page=3)