# Wasn't there a budget surplus recently?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasnt-there-a-budget-surplus-recently/259426>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [August 11, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasnt-there-a-budget-surplus-recently/259426 "2004-08-11T21:24:48Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 3

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\
**Post date:** [August 15, 2004, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasnt-there-a-budget-surplus-recently/259426/41 "2004-08-15T07:35:36Z")

</div>

> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> No, the debt did not get smaller. But yes, its growth slowed dramatically.

O.K., thanks. I got my figures from the Congressional Budget Office  
[http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1821&sequence=0#table1](http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1821&sequence=0#table1)

> [@](#):
>
> Debt Held by the Public (billions of dollars):
> 
> 1993 3,248.4  
> 1994 3,433.1  
> 1995 3,604.4  
> 1996 3,734.1  
> 1997 3,772.3  
> 1998 3,721.1  
> 1999 3,632.4  
> 2000 3,409.8  
> 2001 3,319.6

So am I reading the chart wrong? It’s obviously not the same figures as yours.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\
**Post date:** [August 15, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasnt-there-a-budget-surplus-recently/259426/42 "2004-08-15T15:19:25Z")

</div>

> [@blowero](#):
>
> So am I reading the chart wrong? It’s obviously not the same figures as yours.

No, it’s not really wrong, but it’s only part of the picture. The debt held by the public is the total of all the T-Bills, notes, bonds, etc on the market. There is also intragovernmental debt, which are transfers from one government account to another, which are used for Social Security, Medicare, civil service retirement, etc.

I am no expert in these transfers, but it bascially means that the government is loaning itself money. If you want more information, I get it at the office on Monday.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\
**Post date:** [August 15, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasnt-there-a-budget-surplus-recently/259426/43 "2004-08-15T22:34:53Z")

</div>

[Here](http://zfacts.com/p/654.html) is a good page about the borrowing from the Social Security Trust Fund:

> [@](#):
>
> The gross national debt includes the entire $1.5 trillion Social Security Trust Fund, all of which has been borrowed and spent. Since the early 1980s, we’ve been paying extra (through FICA taxes) to build up a surplus that will have over $3.5 trillion by 2012 and more in its peak year of 2017. But this surplus has been loaned to the General Fund of the federal government for other uses, contributing to the national debt.

[Here](http://zfacts.com/p/318.html) is an interesting graph of the national debt as a percent of GDP over time. Pretty interesting, if not surprising, correlations with who was President too since the Republicans first adopted the “cut taxes and spend” policies under Reagan.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\
**Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasnt-there-a-budget-surplus-recently/259426/44 "2004-08-16T07:16:18Z")

</div>

> [@jshore](#):
>
> [Here](http://zfacts.com/p/654.html) is a good page about the borrowing from the Social Security Trust Fund:

It’s interesting that your link also says that the debt decreased under Clinton. I guess it depends who’s doing the calculations.

[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasnt-there-a-budget-surplus-recently/259426.md?page=2)