# Wasting fuel as a criminal offense? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762 "2022-03-09T17:39:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/1 "2022-03-09T17:39:51Z")
What would have to happen to make wanton waste of fuel a criminal offense, particularly in the US? Question was inspired mostly by those supposed Freedom Convoys, but anything similar might count, too. I wasn’t around for any of our major wars, but my understanding is that being caught wasting fuel could have gotten you into hot water. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/2 "2022-03-09T17:41:46Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > What would have to happen to make wanton waste of fuel a criminal offense, particularly in the US? I’m thinking mostly of those supposed Freedom Convoys, but anything similar might count, too. Well, recreational boating would certainly take a hit. ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/3 "2022-03-09T17:52:09Z")
Who gets to decide what counts as waste? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/4 "2022-03-09T17:54:53Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > Who gets to decide what counts as waste?  Since I’m asking about a potential legal situation, I imagine that would be the people who wrote the law. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/5 "2022-03-09T17:55:48Z")
I don’t know about wasting fuel but I believe my state–New Hampshire-has a law that you are not supposed to leave your car running unattended but I never actually heard of anyone getting a ticket for it. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/6 "2022-03-09T17:56:53Z")
That probably has less to do with wasting fuel and more to do with discouraging theft. A running unattended car is very easy to steal. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/7 "2022-03-09T17:57:31Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > I don’t know about wasting fuel but I believe my state–New Hampshire-has a law that you are not supposed to leave your car running unattended but I never actually heard of anyone getting a ticket for it.  We have that law here, too. People get ticketed all the time. I believe that it’s less about wasting gas, though, and more about thieves stealing unattended cars. We recently had a car stolen that had a little kid in the back seat, so that’s kinda ramped up enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/8 "2022-03-09T17:59:40Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Question was inspired mostly by those supposed Freedom Convoys, but anything similar might count, too. This seems like a very bad idea. Criminalizing “going for a drive” is a huge overreach of state power and criminalizing “going for a drive to make a political statement” is that and also has major first Amendment issues. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/9 "2022-03-09T18:01:26Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > Question was inspired mostly by those supposed Freedom Convoys, but anything similar might count, too. > > This seems like a very bad idea. Criminalizing “going for a drive” is a huge overreach of state power and criminalizing “going for a drive to make a political statement” is that and also has major first Amendment issues.  And if fuel gets so expensive that local, state, and federal services can no longer operate? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/10 "2022-03-09T18:04:11Z")
There are better ways to reduce fuel usage than criminal sanctions for “unapproved” uses. Whatever fuel these truckers are using is a drop in the bucket compared to total usage. This isn’t a serious attempt to reduce fuel usage, it’s trying to abuse the power of the state to punish people you disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/11 "2022-03-09T18:05:22Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > There are better ways to reduce fuel usage than criminal sanctions for “unapproved” uses. > > Whatever fuel these truckers are using is a drop in the bucket compared to total usage. This isn’t a serious attempt to reduce fuel usage, it’s trying to abuse the power of the state to punish people you disagree with.  Maybe try responding to the question in the body of the OP. It’s easy to find. It’s the only sentence that ends with a question mark. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/12 "2022-03-09T18:08:51Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > And if fuel gets so expensive that local, state, and federal services can no longer operate? In a hypothetical where the government literally can’t operate anymore because fuel is that scarce, a law regulating usage and consumption would probably be justifiable under the Necessary and Proper clause. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/13 "2022-03-09T18:12:19Z")
What would have to happen is some legislative body would have to write and pass a law. It would be a bad law, very hard to interpret or apply in a consistent manner, and would likely be used in a manner inconsistent with a free and liberal society. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/14 "2022-03-09T18:14:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > And if fuel gets so expensive that local, state, and federal services can no longer operate? > > In a hypothetical where the government literally can’t operate anymore because fuel is that scarce, a law regulating usage and consumption would probably be justifiable under the Necessary and Proper clause. That’s reasonable. Other hypotheticals include the economy taking a major hit because people cannot get to work or manufacturing getting slammed due to the high cost of energy. Also, can states or municipalities enact such measures? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/15 "2022-03-09T18:27:17Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > And if fuel gets so expensive that local, state, and federal services can no longer operate? Even then, the Constitution is not suspended. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/16 "2022-03-09T18:28:47Z")
Wouldn’t it make far more sense to ration gas if things got that bad instead of worrying about what people are using it for? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/17 "2022-03-09T18:29:52Z")
Even in these hypotheticals I have trouble imagining a “wasting gas is a crime” law. It’s too subjective. Much more likely would be fuel rationing, which already has precedent in this country. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/18 "2022-03-09T18:36:23Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Wouldn’t it make far more sense to ration gas if things got that bad instead of worrying about what people are using it for? > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Even in these hypotheticals I have trouble imagining a “wasting gas is a crime” law. It’s too subjective. > > Much more likely would be fuel rationing, which already has precedent in this country. The point that it could become criminal is somewhere after rationing fails, then. That sounds fair. I’m reminded of the international politicians who all arrived at a summit to address global pollution on private jets. I’m also reminded of “rolling coal,” though I imagine that’s more of a pollution issue than a wasting fuel issue. ---
**Author:** ![TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thegunismightierthanthepen/32/2981_2.png) [@TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheGunIsMightierThanThePen)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/19 "2022-03-09T18:56:37Z")
Personally, I feel the purposeful wasting of fuel is distasteful - but then again, these people paid for the fuel, it’s not like they stole it, so in a way I guess they’re entitled to waste it if they really wanted to, as long as it doesn’t involve criminal acts / direct destruction of property. As for the pollution aspect, would it have been more defensible if they had bought all that fuel and then splurged it in a cross-country joyride? You have to assume that when they’re buying the fuel, they’re going to be _using_ it at some point. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762/20 "2022-03-09T19:08:49Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > Who gets to decide what counts as waste? This is pretty much it - who bells the cat? Plus, even if it was passed as ‘feel-good’ legislation - and worse has done so, I can’t imagine it being enforced to any degree, other than as a pretext for something else. So, say, an African-American sitting in a car in a white neighborhood with the engine running while making a call/checking his cellphone? Arrested. White kids drag racing? No enforcement. And so forth. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see something about coal-roller software and hardware packages being fully legislated and enforced (and IMHO - if you have the $$$ for these packs, you can afford to pay some fines) - but I just see nothing but failure in a general wasting fuel law. If nothing else, it’d have to be so specific to be valueless, or so general to be abused in the worst ways. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wasting-fuel-as-a-criminal-offense/960762.md?page=2)