# Watch a killer defend himself - starting LIVE in 5 minutes **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 28, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800 "2010-01-28T19:26:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/1 "2010-01-28T19:26:07Z")
Link to live coverage of Scott Roeder trial [http://www.kwch.com/global/video/popup/pop\_player.asp?vt1=l&d1=0&ClipId1=mms%3A//a822.l2397043490.c23970.n.lm.akamaistream.net/D/822/23970/v0001/reflector%3A43490&LiveURI=mms%3A//a822.l2397043490.c23970.n.lm.akamaistream.net/D/822/23970/v0001/reflector%3A43490&h1=Live](http://www.kwch.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?vt1=l&d1=0&ClipId1=mms%3A//a822.l2397043490.c23970.n.lm.akamaistream.net/D/822/23970/v0001/reflector%3A43490&LiveURI=mms%3A//a822.l2397043490.c23970.n.lm.akamaistream.net/D/822/23970/v0001/reflector%3A43490&h1=Live) Trial restarts at 2:30 EST. Scott Roeder is testifying in his own defense. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/2 "2010-01-28T19:56:35Z")
This guy seems lucid and not crazy at all. But I guess most psychopaths appear lucid. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/3 "2010-01-28T20:10:20Z")
Cross examination by the district attorney is just beginning…this should get good now. ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/4 "2010-01-28T20:12:37Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > Scott Roeder is testifying in his own defense. :smack: Always a bad idea. Seriously, when has this ever worked and not sent out “CRAZY!” waves across the county? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/5 "2010-01-28T21:05:51Z")
The district attorney is not the best orator and her question forming abilities are pretty poor…but this guy is hanging himself for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/6 "2010-01-28T21:25:40Z")
The jury will give him voluntary manslaughter. Mark my words. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/7 "2010-01-28T21:31:38Z")
I was afraid that would happen to - but somewhere I got the legal language for the state of KS for that provision, and it would be pretty hard to get it done. That doesn’t mean that jury nullification isn’t a huge risk, but I will still be hopeful that he gets what’s coming to him. (I think I started a thread about this in [GD](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=547670&highlight=roeder)) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/8 "2010-01-29T13:39:38Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > The jury will give him voluntary manslaughter. Mark my words. And your words will be wrong. I have confidence this jury will convict him of murder. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/9 "2010-01-29T14:47:36Z")
Are you saying it’s okay to get a lesser charge if you murder a person who is commiting a legal act that you don’t like. I kill a smoker because I don’t like secondhand smoke. It could be killing me. Should I be convicted of anything but cold blooded murder? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/10 "2010-01-29T15:39:23Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Are you saying it’s okay to get a lesser charge if you murder a person who is commiting a legal act that you don’t like. I don’t think **Shirley** is saying that at all. I think she’s saying that the jury will think that. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/11 "2010-01-29T15:44:29Z")
I was reading about this in the New York Times. It seems the standard in Kansas law is an “unreasonable but honest belief that circumstances existed that justified deadly force,” mitigates murder down to manslaughter. If this is in fact the case, and if it is the relevant portion of the law, then I (if on the jury) would have to vote for manslaughter. Darn dumb law. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/12 "2010-01-29T15:49:53Z")
I agree with Paul - the problem is the way the law is written (if that’s the relevent part). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/13 "2010-01-29T15:51:55Z")
Kansas Statutes: > [@](#): > > **Chapter 21: Crimes And Punishments** > > **PART II.–PROHIBITED CONDUCT** > > **Article 34: Crimes Against Persons** > > Statute 21-3403: Voluntary manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter is the intentional killing of a human being committed: > > ``` > (a) Upon a sudden quarrel or in the heat of passion; or > > (b) upon an unreasonable but honest belief that circumstances existed that justified deadly force under K.S.A. 21-3211, 21-3212 or 21-3213 and amendments thereto. > > ``` > > Voluntary manslaughter is a severity level 3, person felony. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/14 "2010-01-29T15:59:14Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > The jury will give him voluntary manslaughter. Mark my words. According to this article, the judge has ruled that the jury will only consider murder charges. Voluntary manslaughter is off the table. To the judge’s credit, he’s said all along that he does not want this trial to turn into a referendum on abortion. [http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking\_news/story/1713378.html](http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1713378.html) ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/15 "2010-01-29T16:19:47Z")
From the reader comments of **Katriona** : > [@teabagtommy](#): > > Bill O’Reilly is right. Tiller is Tiller the baby killer. Scott is a hero and should have gotten the narbel peach prize instead of Obama who is a terrorist communits socailite muslum just like Hitler and Bill is in concert with Glen Beck on the bold fresh tour and Bill hates Obama too who also is an aborshun dokter and now Obama dont want no won to be able have guns and wants to take Scotts away from him. Wait till Bill hears about this. He sure will be mad and so will Glen who also is a war hero like President Chainey. Rush says not to give no money to Hati and you should give your money to the Kapatlisims who give us oil and we will all be rich if we elect republicans who are pure and holesome like the Waltons and the Bradys. Bill says we should go back to the good ol’ days that way everything would be nice and clean and we could drink out of the drinking fountains but you better not now because the kenyas might be drinking out of them and Sarah shur is smart. Tommy, if you ever want to subscribe here, I’ll happily cover your tab. That is some quality faux-moron there. Note, if that is not parody and is _acutal_ moron, then God help anyone with whom he ever has to share a cab. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/16 "2010-01-29T16:24:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think **Shirley** is saying that at all. I think she’s saying that the jury will think that. This is correct, except for my gender. > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I was reading about this in the New York Times. It seems the standard in Kansas law is an “unreasonable but honest belief that circumstances existed that justified deadly force,” mitigates murder down to manslaughter. > > If this is in fact the case, and if it is the relevant portion of the law, then I (if on the jury) would have to vote for manslaughter. > > Darn dumb law. I don’t think you would. I agree that Roeder mistakenly thought that he was saving lives. However, the deadly force has to be reasonable under a separate section of Kansas law cited above, which requires the threat to be imminent. And that’s where Roeder’s defense fails. There were no lives in imminent danger at that church that morning, as the judge pointed out. If Roeder had busted in to Tiller’s clinic just as he was starting a procedure, maybe. > [@Katriona](#): > > According to this article, the judge has ruled that the jury will only consider murder charges. Voluntary manslaughter is off the table. > > To the judge’s credit, he’s said all along that he does not want this trial to turn into a referendum on abortion. > > [http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking\_news/story/1713378.html](http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1713378.html) That’s good news. Now all we have to worry about is one die-hard pro-lifer hanging the jury. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/17 "2010-01-29T16:26:45Z")
I was just looking at a couple of Freeper threads about this trial. Teabagtommy is not far off from what they’re really saying. The Freepers are all foursquare behind Roeder. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/18 "2010-01-29T16:53:01Z")
Thought this thread may have been about Tony Blair. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/19 "2010-01-29T17:04:59Z")
Verdict is in: Guilty ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800/20 "2010-01-29T17:10:47Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > Verdict is in: Guilty Premeditated first-degree. [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100129/ap\_on\_re\_us/us\_abortion\_shooting\_trial](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100129/ap_on_re_us/us_abortion_shooting_trial) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watch-a-killer-defend-himself-starting-live-in-5-minutes/526800.md?page=2)