# Watched "Spirited Away" last weekend - that was pretty silly. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 23, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468 "2008-12-23T23:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/21 "2008-12-24T02:58:02Z")
I found _Spirited Away_ and _Howl’s_ to be my least favourite of the Miyasaki films. I still enjoyed them immensely however. My favourite, which has been so since I saw it around age 6 or 7 is \*Island In the Sky \*or _Flying Island Of Laputa_ as I knew it for years. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/22 "2008-12-24T03:06:03Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > So, did I miss something? Was there something I’m not getting that makes this movie worth the 97% rating it has on Rotten Tomatoes? I think that’s the flaw in the Rotten Tomatoes system. Even a mild recommendation (e.g. two-and-a-half stars or an unenthusiastic “Thumbs up”) gets a “fresh” rating on RT, so a movie good enough for a large number of critics to give a mild recommendation can get a 97% fresh rating. That said, I think “Spirited Away” is one of the more beautiful movies I’ve ever seen. The story isn’t really great shakes, but it’s just gorgeous to look at. The entirety of the sequence starting with Chihiro’s parents turning into pigs up to her entry into the bath house and acquiring a job is just lovely. To me, Miyazaki’s plots are often weird and rambling and somewhat nonsensical…but the plot isn’t really the point of the movie, either. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/23 "2008-12-24T03:10:42Z")
> [@The\_Superhero](#): > > That said, I think “Spirited Away” is one of the more beautiful movies I’ve ever seen. The story isn’t really great shakes, but it’s just gorgeous to look at. That may have been part of my problem with it. I watched it with subtitles. It’s hard to really look at a movie and constantly be reading the bottom of the screen at the same time. If I really want to “get” a subtitled movie I usually have to watch it at least twice. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/24 "2008-12-24T03:15:34Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Slow-paced isn’t a problem for me; I like my movies to take as much time as they need to tell the story properly; it definitely was weird, though - I think **susan** has hit on what was bugging me- the lack of internal logic and pointlessness. Now there’s a giant, ugly radish going up to the top of the building in the elevator - and now he’s coming back down again. It was somewhat of a big deal in the movie, but it didn’t seem to have any point. 😕 The radish guy wasn’t a huge deal. He was just another customer of the baths. In terms of the plot, he served two purposes: one, to put Chihiro in close proximity with one of the weird creatures inhabiting the spa, and two, by having him cover for the girl, to show that the weird creatures aren’t necessarily all inimical to humans. I tend to agree with **Jragon** , in that the movie didn’t seem that foreign to me. What struck me most, actually, was how familiar it seemed. In many ways, it could have been an Irish folktale, with faeries playing the roles of the animist spirits with only slight modifications. As a more general note, this is one of my absolute favorite movies. I own the DVD, and have watched it a dozen times at least. **Cisco** has a good point about it lacking clear moral divisions between heroes and villains, but I don’t think this is a cultural divide, so much as the result of a genuine master storyteller at work, who doesn’t need to rely on simple dualistic differences in order to generate conflict. Artists like that are rare in any culture. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/25 "2008-12-24T03:55:00Z")
I think **Princess Mononoke** has been, by far, his best work. That said, **Spirited Away** had every single theater in Japan sold out for every showing for two months (no exaggeration.) Mononoke came nowhere near that level of adoration. Personally, I don’t see the appeal of Spirited Away. It’s nice, but unimpressive for the most part. I feel the same way about all the Pixar movies, though, and **The Iron Giant**. I think I can’t get into a kid’s movie unless it’s really an adult movie that kids can watch. And I’ll note that just watching a few seconds of the American dubbing of Mononoke made me want to fling it away. If you can find a subtitled version, I would definitely recommend that first. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/26 "2008-12-24T03:57:50Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Slow-paced isn’t a problem for me; I like my movies to take as much time as they need to tell the story properly; it definitely was weird, though - I think **susan** has hit on what was bugging me- the lack of internal logic and pointlessness. Now there’s a giant, ugly radish going up to the top of the building in the elevator - and now he’s coming back down again. It was somewhat of a big deal in the movie, but it didn’t seem to have any point. 😕 Some movies function like machines. Every little piece meshes with the rest to move the story forward. This is particularly true of animated movies because every minute of screen time is so expensive to create. Animated films tend to be more meticulously planned than other movies and have less fat. _Spirited Away_ isn’t like that. Things just sort of … happen. Trivial bits get lots of screen time and major plot points sometimes slide by almost as an afterthought. It bothered me too, the first time I watched it, but on repeated viewing I think Miyazaki is actually doing it on purpose. It has a dream-logic about it, flowing from moment to moment without much consideration for where it’s headed. The goal isn’t to build toward a particular resolution the way most movies do. The goal is to create an atmosphere of magic and wonder. You see this to a lesser extent in some of his other movies. The central “story” of _My Neighbor Totoro_ isn’t that important. Mostly the movie is just a collection of charming vignettes. _Howl’s Moving Castle_ has moments like that as well. One of the really interesting things about Miyazaki as an artist is how he challenges our notions of how narrative is supposed to function. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/27 "2008-12-24T04:10:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The radish guy wasn’t a huge deal. He was just another customer of the baths. In terms of the plot, he served two purposes: one, to put Chihiro in close proximity with one of the weird creatures inhabiting the spa, and two, by having him cover for the girl, to show that the weird creatures aren’t necessarily all inimical to humans. I actually had to search to see which guy she was referring to, because I couldn’t picture a “radish guy”, and I’m surprised that anyone would think that it was “somewhat big deal”. It was a short scene showing her quick adjustment to a fanciful world that still had some of the trappings of her regular world (stuck in an elevator with strangers). > [@Miller](#): > > I tend to agree with **Jragon** , in that the movie didn’t seem that foreign to me. What struck me most, actually, was how familiar it seemed. In many ways, it could have been an Irish folktale, with faeries playing the roles of the animist spirits with only slight modifications. I immediately saw it as an Alice in Wonderland, but with more subtle, and more moving, meanings behind the characters. I absolutely loved what he did with No Face, making him an enhanced reflection of the people around him. > [@Miller](#): > > As a more general note, this is one of my absolute favorite movies. I own the DVD, and have watched it a dozen times at least. I too. And now that my kids are more able to follow plots and ideas, it’s even more wonderful. It’s a movie that puts the inane simplicity of so many kids movies to shame. ---
**Author:** ![Lavender\_Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b782af/32.png) [@Lavender\_Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lavender_Falcon)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/28 "2008-12-24T04:18:55Z")
I love Miyazaki’s work, but I can see why it wouldn’t appeal to everyone. **Spirited Away** and **Howl’s Moving Castle** , for example, are more character driven than plot driven. There is nothing high drama about either, even though the same stories could be told with the action and conflict ratcheted up. I think one of the things I like about the movies is that there is no hand-wringing on the part of the girls who play the lead roles. Horrible things happen to them, but they don’t fall apart and waste a lot of time bemoaning the unfairness of life. Instead, they roll up their sleeves and calmly accept their new realities, finding ways to cope with whatever odd things befall them. I can admire that, and I think what I find so appealing is the sheer quirkiness of what befalls them and wondering how they will eventually work their way out of it. Both girls also show great generosity to others in spite of their own traumas and are assimilated within their new communities. Contrast this with Western plots where the hero either goes it alone or stands above all those who assist him or her. Miyazaki’s protagonists conquer from within. Western heroes conquer from without. I think this difference is very much a reflection of the cultural differences between East and West, and I guess that’s what I find so fascinating about the movies. They are not the same old worn out plot I’ve seen a million times before. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/29 "2008-12-24T04:29:58Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > \*Island In the Sky \*or _Flying Island Of Laputa_ as I knew it for years. I watched this one recently and it was called _ **Castle** in the Sky_. (I’m in the US) Of the Miyazaki films I’ve seen, \*Porco Rosso \*is the only one that has disappointed me. It wasn’t terrible, but it just didn’t move me like the others have. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/30 "2008-12-24T04:57:23Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Of the Miyazaki films I’ve seen, \*Porco Rosso \*is the only one that has disappointed me. It wasn’t terrible, but it just didn’t move me like the others have. Really? I didn’t like Kiki’s Delivery Service. Nice animation, but nothing all that great aobut it. Loved Spirited Away. I really liked Howl’s Moving Castle also, thought not as much. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/31 "2008-12-24T05:03:05Z")
I’m glad I’m not the only one who didn’t get _Spirited Away_. I thought it was exactly the same as every other Japanese cartoon I’ve ever tried to watch. Weird, unengaging, visually repellant and incomprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/32 "2008-12-24T05:12:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > As a more general note, this is one of my absolute favorite movies. I own the DVD, and have watched it a dozen times at least. **Cisco** has a good point about it lacking clear moral divisions between heroes and villains, but I don’t think this is a cultural divide, so much as the result of a genuine master storyteller at work, who doesn’t need to rely on simple dualistic differences in order to generate conflict. Artists like that are rare in any culture. Oh no! See, this is why I don’t venture into Cafe much. I completely agree with **Miller**. How often does that happen?! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![nevermore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a587f6/32.png) [@nevermore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevermore)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/33 "2008-12-24T05:22:16Z")
This movie caught me from the first 15 minutes as totally magical. I was completely enraptured; I literally felt like a child wondering at a brand-new world. I was amused, enchanted, exhilarated, and touched all at once, and I didn’t stop to think about why until after the movie. I think, for me, the meandering pace was a plus. All of the animated movies I’d theretofore seen that were suitable for children felt very stylized and “Disneyfied”, just slick and tight and well-oiled and thought-out, everything always leading to something, with no time for enchantment or introspection. I think there’s a certain beauty in quiet and in observing without feeling drawn up into every rushing thing like so many American movies make me feel. _Spirited Away_ felt, to me, like a softer, quieter, Japanese Alice in Wonderland. I loved the strength and bravery of the little girl, especially when compared to Alice, who mostly wandered around crying and pouting and bemoaning her fate, where Chihiro sucked it up and got a job and actively worked toward her goal of saving her parents with only occasional tears. I thought her progression from whiny and sorry for herself to mature, determined, and self-motivated was very natural and quite moving. I also really enjoyed the English voice acting. That’s always a huge plus for me in enjoying anime. If something’s dubbed particularly badly, I’ll watch it with subtitles, but I prefer to watch in my native language if it doesn’t _feel_ like a dub. This one didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/34 "2008-12-24T05:44:42Z")
> [@nevermore](#): > > This movie caught me from the first 15 minutes as totally magical. I was completely enraptured; I literally felt like a child wondering at a brand-new world. I was amused, enchanted, exhilarated, and touched all at once, and I didn’t stop to think about why until after the movie. > > I think, for me, the meandering pace was a plus. All of the animated movies I’d theretofore seen that were suitable for children felt very stylized and “Disneyfied”, just slick and tight and well-oiled and thought-out, everything always leading to something, with no time for enchantment or introspection. I think there’s a certain beauty in quiet and in observing without feeling drawn up into every rushing thing like so many American movies make me feel. > > _Spirited Away_ felt, to me, like a softer, quieter, Japanese Alice in Wonderland. I loved the strength and bravery of the little girl, especially when compared to Alice, who mostly wandered around crying and pouting and bemoaning her fate, where Chihiro sucked it up and got a job and actively worked toward her goal of saving her parents with only occasional tears. I thought her progression from whiny and sorry for herself to mature, determined, and self-motivated was very natural and quite moving. > > I also really enjoyed the English voice acting. That’s always a huge plus for me in enjoying anime. If something’s dubbed particularly badly, I’ll watch it with subtitles, but I prefer to watch in my native language if it doesn’t _feel_ like a dub. This one didn’t. Ok, you’ve convinced me. I’m going to go rent the movie and watch it again, dubbed this time. Maybe I’ll be able to earn enough points somehow to talk my wife into watching it. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/35 "2008-12-24T05:52:33Z")
I started a thread that was pretty much the opposite of this – having ‘discovered’ _Spirited Away_ and loved it, I [asked for more recommendations](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=482797). The thread has a good discussion on this films, I think. I do find them different from Western cartoons; for me, it relates to what seems to be a far more casual and open acceptance of the bizarre and ‘unpretty’. The creatures and gods in _Spirited Away, Howl’s Moving Castle, Princess Mononoke_ and _Naussica_ aren’t all stunningly beautiful or cute, the way creatures are generally mandated to be in American animation. They don’t shy from ordure or reality, either; contrarily, spiritual and artistic elements are also held in higher regard than I’ve seen in many American cartoons. **Lavender Falcon** mentions another aspect of the films I love (mentioned in that earlier thread linked above): > [@](#): > > Both girls also show great generosity to others in spite of their own traumas and are assimilated within their new communities. Contrast this with Western plots where the hero either goes it alone or stands above all those who assist him or her. Miyazaki’s protagonists conquer from within. Western heroes conquer from without. I think this difference is very much a reflection of the cultural differences between East and West, and I guess that’s what I find so fascinating about the movies. This is so very true. The lead characters show tremendous compassion and generosity to these somewhat hideous, ugly, unwanted creatures/deities (ones that, in many an American film, would probably be throwaway villains). Chihiru and No-Face from _Spirited Away_ is my favorite example, but also Sophie and Turnip-Head & the witch from _Howl’s_. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not looking down on American animation _at all_ – the whole reason I sought out anime films was because of my love for Disney and Pixar films such as _Beauty and the Beast_, _Hunchback_, _The Incredibles_ and _Ratatouille_, which led me to search for further examples of transcendant animation. I’m fascinated by anime and the very different style/sensibility I find in these films. That said, I don’t think people have to “get” them. It’s just a matter of taste, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/36 "2008-12-24T06:01:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m glad I’m not the only one who didn’t get _Spirited Away_. I thought it was exactly the same as every other Japanese cartoon I’ve ever tried to watch. Weird, unengaging, _ **visually repellant** _ and incomprehensible. I defy anyone to find a scene in any movie, live action or animated, that’s as beautiful as the scene with the train moving through the flooded field. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/37 "2008-12-24T06:35:28Z")
I thought the movie was lame. Obviously, I’m in the “Miyazaki isn’t for me” camp. Whereas **Pochacco** suggested earlier that a strength of Miyazaki is that he “challenges our notions of how narrative is supposed to function,” I’d call it a major weakness. Narrative structure exists for a reason and if it is sufficiently broken down, you wind up with just a bunch of stuff that happened. Yes, we see our little hero grow up over the course of the movie, but I found the road there to be disjointed, nonsensical and kinda stupid. The only thing I enjoyed about the show, aside from the little balls of soot, was the visuals, which were sensational. But pretty pictures do not make a great movie, in my humble estimate. Plot counts, as does a character that I give a flying fig about and I cared not one whit about any of the characters in this picture – mostly I was just hoping for each of them to find a quick and horrible demise. I should also note in closing that I don’t require non-stop action for a film to entertain me. Also, Alice in Wonderland is one of my all-time favourite books, so I like to think I have a healthy respect for the absurd and whimsical. _Spirited Away_ just didn’t do it for me. I’d give it a two out of five, with both those points going to the animation. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/38 "2008-12-24T10:43:38Z")
Chalk me up as another who loved _Spirited Away_. I have noticed within Miyazaki films that there is a certain lack of logical consistency (as others have put it) so that what happens and why isn’t always apparent, but to me that adds to the mystery of the world you’re seeing. My favourite scene in _Spirited Away_ was when Chihiro remembered Haku’s name and freed him from the spell. The transformation from his dragon form as he was flying and cheering “You did it Sen, you did it!” makes me smile just thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/39 "2008-12-24T11:15:49Z")
I’m another unashamed fan. I get the feeling from _Spirited Away_ that I’m watching someone else’s fairy tales retold. Since I also like both the originals and modern rewritings of European fairy tales, that disjointed aspect to the narrative is something I’m used to, the writer expects the audience to be familiar enough to fill in the blanks. An example would be that I don’t know why Russian witches houses are almost always perched on giant chicken feet, but I like that I got that reference in _Howl’s Moving Castle_. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468/40 "2008-12-24T17:09:16Z")
For those who did not enjoy _Spirited Away_ or those, like **DtC** who do not enjoy any anime, what it is you find compelling/enjoyable about American animation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watched-spirited-away-last-weekend-that-was-pretty-silly/478468.md?page=3)