# Watching the Alfred E Smith Dinner **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 21, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215 "2016-10-21T01:05:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/81 "2016-10-21T12:43:46Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > ITrump knows what the dinner is about to the outsiders looking in and he took a big dump on it. Good for him. That’s probably the big break his campaign needed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/82 "2016-10-21T12:43:59Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > He also gave every news organization what they wanted. He gave the people that hate him what they wanted. > > As far as the bigots go, if you subtracted the sexism from his history and added in maybe 8 hours of debate prep time, this election would be neck and neck. So I think he knows there are Americans who are not bigots, but he also knows a majority of Americans are bigots and he stood a very good chance of winning just off of that. MMMaaybe. The more I watch Clinton, the more impressed I am by her chops. I don’t think Donald could be even with her with just a little work. That thirty years of experience he keeps deriding? It’s like me going up against Bruce Lee (live Bruce Lee) and saying that my outsider status is gonna let me kick his ass. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/83 "2016-10-21T12:48:51Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > It’s not an American tradition. It’s a dinner for politically connected people in New York City. It started in 1945. It wasn’t a Presidential election event until 1960. There have been many years where both candidates did not go: Bill Clinton has never been invited and the candidates were not invited in 2004. Mondale didn’t accept the invitation. Carter was apparently booed in 1980. > > There’s a serious problem in this country with being able to discriminate between what are important events to the American people and what are important events to the journalist insiders based out of NYC. Trump knows what the dinner is about to the outsiders looking in and he took a big dump on it. Good for him. Don’t recall saying that it was an important tradition, but to me something that has been going on most of the time for 50 years can be considered a tradition. It is understood that this is a night for light hearted levity. It is not a night for taking cheap shots. This is like getting invited to a birthday party and shouting obscenities at one of the guests. It just isn’t done. Trump could have declined to appear, it would have been better for him to have done so. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/84 "2016-10-21T13:06:20Z")
It’s a shame. He started out pretty good and told some solid jokes. Bragging about his modesty is an oldie but a goodie. The “pardon me” joke was great, Clinton was howling with laughter. The joke about Melania’s speech might have been the best joke of the night. And then he bombed. Oh, he bombed so very hard. I mean, EVERY OTHER candidate manages to come off okay. John McCain was probably funnier than Obama in 2008. Mitt Romney, who was as stiff a candidate as ever lived, was very funny. If MITT can do it, jeez… ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/85 "2016-10-21T13:06:37Z")
It is enough of a Washington tradition that it figured into The West Wing several times. ---
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/86 "2016-10-21T13:32:48Z")
It seems Hilllary doesn’t know or believe one of the main tenets of her Methodist faith. She said that what her religion and catholics have in common is their belief in salvation through faith and works. Methodists do not believe in works for salvation. Faith only. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/87 "2016-10-21T13:34:31Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > That’s probably the big break his campaign needed. 😃 😃 I can say, as a person who has hated him and feared that we were potentially electing a man cast in the same mold as Putin, Erdogan, the horde of European populists like those responsible for Brexit or that Dutch deusche Wilders, Duterte, and Chavez, that my respect for him increased by a notch. There may be millions of people in this country who need that notch to go from undecided territory to Trump. That’s Trump’s skill: shit on one group to the entertainment of others. I’m susceptible to it too. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > MMMaaybe. The more I watch Clinton, the more impressed I am by her chops. I don’t think Donald could be even with her with just a little work. That thirty years of experience he keeps deriding? It’s like me going up against Bruce Lee (live Bruce Lee) and saying that my outsider status is gonna let me kick his ass. My happiness with Hillary has increased steadily as the election progressed and now that I see what is going on in the world from the Philippines to Syria and Iraq I feel lucky to have her. Yet I think a significant majority of the American voting public cannot readily find Mosul on a map. Even worse, they do not know there are Americans fighting and dying for our safety and policies in Iraq and Syria. They readily believe there’s some kind of opportunity for a sneak attack on a fortified city of Mosul’s size. They think “Yeah that’s what I would do! Fuck those ISIS fuckers”. That’s a big part of the electorate. If he dressed up his responses a little better and didn’t refer to alternative websites, I’d be sweating right now. I’m sitting here thanking the Universe that Trump has a habit of committing sexual assault because his bigoted statements against Muslims, the disabled, immigrants and refugees barely moved the needle in Clinton’s favor and at most did it for short period of time. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Don’t recall saying that it was an important tradition, but to me something that has been going on most of the time for 50 years can be considered a tradition. It is understood that this is a night for light hearted levity. It is not a night for taking cheap shots. This is like getting invited to a birthday party and shouting obscenities at one of the guests. It just isn’t done. Trump could have declined to appear, it would have been better for him to have done so. The press coverage implies that it is important. No you did not say it is an important event. I think the fact that Bill Clinton was never invited to this dinner is a cheap shot. Yes, Trump should have declined to appear, but then that really isn’t the Trump that some love and most hate is it? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/88 "2016-10-21T13:42:24Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > It seems Hilllary doesn’t know or believe one of the main tenets of her Methodist faith. She said that what her religion and catholics have in common is their belief in salvation through faith and works. Methodists do not believe in works for salvation. Faith only. I’d be interested in finding her exact quote–I haven’t been able to locate a transcript–and then seeing the specific Methodist doctrine she’s contradicting. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/89 "2016-10-21T13:47:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’d be interested in finding her exact quote–I haven’t been able to locate a transcript–and then seeing the specific Methodist doctrine she’s contradicting. No transcript, but [here’s](https://youtu.be/zMqox-OlcOY?t=16m54s)a link to the moment in the speech where she mentions faith and works. From [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodism), Methodist doctrines include “an assurance of salvation, imparted righteousness, the possibility of perfection in love,[5] **the works of piety** and the primacy of Scripture.” (Bolding mine) I’d say the works of piety counts. They’ve also established a lot of organizations that help the poor, sick and orphaned, so her comments seem to be accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/90 "2016-10-21T13:52:58Z")
The quote is about 6 minutes into her speech. “one of the things we share is the belief that in order to achieve salvation is faith and good works”. Google Methodist beliefs and you’ll see this is contrary to their beliefs. Protestants have mostly believed that through faith are you saved, not by works. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/91 "2016-10-21T13:58:00Z")
I was listening to Trump’s speech on the car radio last night, and I was thinking he was doing okay - the “pardon me” joke was overplayed but the one about Melania’s speech literally had me laughing loudly - I even called my wife to tell it to her. I like it when the candidates are self-deprecating and not attacking the other. Then I arrived at my destination and didn’t hear the rest. On my way home, I caught part of Rachel Maddow’s recap with Al Franken and they were talking about how he bombed, and I figured they were exaggerating. Guess not! But just the same I don’t think I’ll subject myself to the rest of the speech. BTW, **Vicsage** is correct. It’s one of the distinguishing marks between Catholicism and Protestantism that Protestants do not believe that good works are necessary for salvation, which is by faith alone. Good works is a _necessary consequence_ of salvation, but not a pre-requisite. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/92 "2016-10-21T13:58:03Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Best lines from Clinton: > “There is nothing like sharing a stage with Donald Trump. Donald wanted me drug tested before last night’s debate. And look, I am so flattered that Donald thought I used some sort of performance enhancer. Now, actually I did. It’s called preparation.” That’s what we all need for this election, a little more Preparation H. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/93 "2016-10-21T13:59:54Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I was listening to Trump’s speech on the car radio last night, and I was thinking he was doing okay - the “pardon me” joke was overplayed but the one about Melania’s speech literally had me laughing loudly - I even called my wife to tell it to her. I like it when the candidates are self-deprecating and not attacking the other. Even his most self-deprecating bit was at the expense of his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/94 "2016-10-21T14:05:44Z")
Going further into the Wiki link to the salvation section, it says salvation is a work of God alone with no work by which it can be earned. Don’t really want to change the topic of the thread into a religious one, just pointing out she misrepresented the Methodist beliefs. Probably not intentional, most people who go to church really don’t pay attention to the fine points of their religion. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/95 "2016-10-21T14:08:04Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > Going further into the Wiki link to the salvation section, it says salvation is a work of God alone with no work by which it can be earned. Don’t really want to change the topic of the thread into a religious one, just pointing out she misrepresented the Methodist beliefs. Probably not intentional, most people who go to church really don’t pay attention to the fine points of their religion. Yeah, Hillary not being a theologian, I think she can be forgiven for not fully understanding the deeper beliefs of Methodism, especially when works play such an important role in the Methodist denomination (schools, orphanages, hospitals, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/96 "2016-10-21T14:24:13Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > Going further into the Wiki link to the salvation section, it says salvation is a work of God alone with no work by which it can be earned. Don’t really want to change the topic of the thread into a religious one, just pointing out she misrepresented the Methodist beliefs. Probably not intentional, most people who go to church really don’t pay attention to the fine points of their religion. Gotcha–it’s an interesting point, but I can chalk it up to either a very minor bit of ignorance about official doctrine, or to a wording slip. Both Catholicism and Methodist faith emphasize both faith and good works, even if they set up a different cause-effect relationship between the two, and discussing that commonality was her point. > [@Crybaby\_Boobie](#): > > That’s what we all need for this election, a little more Preparation H. It’s perfect for getting rid of a bloody annoying pain in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/97 "2016-10-21T14:56:24Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > There’s a serious problem in this country with being able to discriminate between what are important events to the American people and what are important events to the journalist insiders based out of NYC. . Comparisons to 1980 or 1992 are laughable. In 1980, if you wanted to see Jimmy Carter do something, it had to be on the six o’clock news. Today, the Al Smith dinner is on the Internet. Millions of people will watch it. **What’s private or exclusive is no longer anything of the sort.** Had Trump whiffed at the dinner in 1984, few people would know. Now people find out about it in moments and can watch it in HD on their phones. It’s a different era, and you change with it or it’ll leave you behind. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/98 "2016-10-21T15:02:09Z")
According to Cardinal Dolan, [the candidates had nice things to say to each other afterwards.](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-clinton-nice-words-catholic-dinner-230143) > [@](#): > > Dolan said the three of them prayed together. “And after the little prayer, Mr. Trump turned to Secretary Clinton and said, ‘You know, you are one tough and talented woman,’” he recalled. “And he said, ‘This has been a good experience in this whole campaign, as tough as it’s been,’ and she said to him, ‘And Donald, whatever happens, we need to work together afterwards.’ Now I thought: This is the evening at its best.” ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/99 "2016-10-21T15:52:06Z")
To quote Hesh, from The Sopranos: “I guess what struck me most was, (s)he didn’t mince words; in between brain and mouth there was no interlocutor.” Trump has no filters. Mental diarrhea has been his biggest problem in this campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215/100 "2016-10-21T15:56:27Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Just like the debates, he can pretend to be a decent person for about 10 or 15 minutes. And then he reverts to being the complete jackass that he is. To be fair, it _is_ an asymmetrical problem: [QUOTE=Spock] It was far easier for you, as civilized men, to behave like barbarians than it was for them, as barbarians, to behave like civilized men. [/QUOTE] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watching-the-alfred-e-smith-dinner/769215.md?page=6)