# "Watchman" = Watchmen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 8, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998 "2004-04-08T18:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/1 "2004-04-08T18:09:51Z")
I just saw [this](http://entertainment.msn.com/celebs/article.aspx?news=154697) little blurb (down at the very bottom) which talks about a new Hellboy sequel and then quotes: > [@](#): > > “We’re going to do ‘The Watchman,’” “Hellboy” co-producer Lloyd Levin tells Cindy Pearlman. “\*t’s really a unique story because it deals with the spiritual aspect of being a superhero.” I’m a little out of the comic loop since I’ve become obsessed with manga and learning Japanese. Is there a comic called “The Watchman”? (I’ve searched but don’t see anything) Or is he probably talking about “The Watchmen” and just got misquoted? I almost hope it’s not “The Watchmen” he’s talking about. I enjoyed “Hellboy” but it wasn’t _amazing_ and I wonder if the producers could handle the themes of “The Watchmen”… ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/2 "2004-04-08T18:18:26Z")
From the Chicago Sun-Times, April 5, [Cindy Pearlmans column](http://www.suntimes.com/output/pearlman/cst-ftr-cindy05.html): > [@](#): > > "We’re going to do ‘The Watchmen,’ ‘’ says producer Lloyd Levin. “It’s about a group of superheroes who reunite to figure out who is trying to kill them off.” > > No, it’s not Batman, Robin and Wonder Woman. “It’s different characters, but it’s really a unique story because it deals with the spiritual aspect of being a superhero,” he says. This is either good news or bad news, depending on your opinion on whether it is possible to translate _The Watchmen_ to the screen. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/3 "2004-04-08T18:36:44Z")
nooooooooo!!! **Watchmen** Will not work on the big screen. That ending will not be allowed. The grim darkness of tone will not be allowed. The fact the ‘action’ is really only a backdrop for the intensity of the story will not be allowed. **Watchmen** makes **The Thing** by John Carpenter look like the **Wizard of Oz** and I haven’t seen anything as dark as **The Thing** in a long time. Who could even direct it? ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/4 "2004-04-08T18:46:09Z")
Thanks for the info, **Papermache Prince**. Hmmm, I’m apprehensive. I actually think the Watchmen would work best as a miniseries. I don’t think there’s enough time in a motion picture to cover everything. And I think the Brits could keep the darkness (if they only had access to a decent budget). I guess we’ll see… ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/5 "2004-04-08T18:55:43Z")
Add me to the list of “Please, no.” As much as I’d like to see a Watchmen movie, I just don’t see how anyone could pull it off. It is on too grand a scale, and as others have pointed out, the emotions of the characters are a big part of the book. Perhaps a mini-series, as has been suggested, but not a standard Hollywood “We need more 'splosions!”-fest. Now a _Swamp Thing_ movie, based on Alan Moore’s work, or a _Doom Patrol_ or _Animal Man_ movie based on Grant Morrison’s work…[drool]. Pick a story arc, any story arc, and I’d be there. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/6 "2004-04-08T19:05:50Z")
The Watchmen will mever work as a movie. Never ever ever. Too complex to cover in two hours (unless they do a LOTR style nine-hour epic). Too dark for Hollywood, especially as it’s a superhero story. And inextricably bound up in the time period it was written (The plot involved the threat of a nuclear exchange with the USSR following a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, for one thing). This alternate 1980’s _could_ be successfuly portrayed, but it would be damn hard. Then again, I said much the same about LOTR, and was wrong there. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/7 "2004-04-08T19:14:59Z")
[Here is Llyod Levin’s IMDB entry](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0505656/). Kind of spotty. He produced the _Tomb Raider_ movies, _K-Pax_, _Mystery Men_, and _Boogie Nights_. My conclusions: he has a slightly-more-open-than-normal mind, but there is no evidence he’s the visionary this project needs. There have been persistant rumors that John Cusak (known in my household as The Great Cusak) is attached to play Night Owl, which could work. The choice of director will be absolutely critical . ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/8 "2004-04-08T19:34:05Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > The choice of director will be absolutely critical . There’s a [rumour](http://www.comicbookmovie.com/news/articles/1002.asp) it’s going to be [David Hayter](http://imdb.com/name/nm0371684/) Also > [@](#): > > Sigourney Weaver as the Silk Spectre. Daniel Craig as Rorschach. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/9 "2004-04-08T19:38:38Z")
If it only sucks half as hard as _The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen_, it will be a miracle. I suspect it will suffer from many of the same problems. Apart from difficulties of scale, adapting Alan Moore for film seems like an ambitious task – strange to say it, but his style is more literary than pictorial. I wouldn’t say it’s _impossible_ to pull it off, so long as the responsible parties understand the source, but if they approach it like a “superhero movie” it’ll be dismal. Of course, I’ll watch it. ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/10 "2004-04-08T20:13:06Z")
Last update I read did indeed have David Hayter attached as Director as well as screenwriter. A while back, there was a review of the Hayter screenplay at [Ain’t It Cool News.](http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=13607) Also a bit in there about Terry Gilliam passing on the project, he thought it could work as a mini-series rather than a feature. The reviewer is rather upbeat about the screenplay, though I have my doubts. He states that nobody will miss the omission of the _Under the Hood_ and _Tales of the Black Freighter_ passages. I accept that these would have to be cut for time, but this is why the project will ultimately fail IMO. Along with the character studies of the priciples involved in the central story, the background material and the nature of fate explored in the _Black Freighter_ sequences are what made the book great. Two hours simply is not enough time to establish the character depth which makes the action interesting. ---
**Author:** ![noodler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@noodler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noodler)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/11 "2004-04-08T21:33:45Z")
What point is there in turning Watchmen into a movie? It is probably _the_ highpoint in comic-book storytelling. More importantly, it wasn’t trying to mimic the techniques of movies. I think that it is one of the few stories that is wholly dependant on its medium. Besides, wouldn’t comic geeks want to resist attempts at translation simply because if filmakers did manage to pull it off it would imply that film is a superior medium? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/12 "2004-04-08T21:56:07Z")
Oh please God, no. I didn’t mind the horrible job they did with _League of Extraordinary Gentlemen_. As far as I’m concerned, even the comic book was at best a throwaway effort by Moore. But _Watchmen_? The depth, complexity, and hundred little sub-plots and exquisitely crafted backstories make it so much harder to deal with. Anyone know if Alan Moore is saying anything on the subject? ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/13 "2004-04-08T22:21:29Z")
The Black Freighter story is the necessary co-story for the events in the main story. In fact, almost all the commentary on the actions of the characters in the main story isn’t in the main thread, it’s in the “supplementary” material that will have to be lost to translate the main story to a purely visual media. In order to make a movie, you need to loose the ornithological article, most of Rorsach’s diary, the police reports and psychologist’s notes, much of the memoir excerpts, etc. The story you are left with is not the full story of the book. Which makes me wonder, much like the upcoming _I, Robot_, what’s the point? The producers are excising what makes the original audience enjoy the book in order to chase a broader mass audience. But the broader mass audience doesn’t recognize, and doesn’t care much about, what little is left. The original audience wants the elements that were excised. If you’ve pissed off the original audience to chase an audience that still doesn’t want what you have left, you have no audience. In a different setting, I see an analogous thing happen with companies that have loyal, but small markets. They try to change the company or its products to chase a larger market, but lose both. One example off the top of my head: Deja News ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/14 "2004-04-08T22:27:26Z")
The dairy and notes won’t be hard at all. Why a simple voice over _shudder_ will do the trick every time. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/15 "2004-04-08T23:06:21Z")
They’d have a better shot at making a movie out of the futuristicky Miller/Gibbons work _Give me Liberty_. _Watchmen_ is too locked into its mid-eighties timeframe to work as a movie today, or at least not without a truly preposterous amount of exposition. Besides, I kinda doubt that anyone will care about the greater motives of the Ozymandias character after he trashes NYC with a giant gynecology model. They’ll either have to drastically change the ending, or try to remind the audience of the ongoing low-level terror of the Cold War. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/16 "2004-04-09T00:02:14Z")
I can already anticipate the controversy: villain trashes New York in a terroristic surprise attack. Lots of civilian dead. World offers sympathy and support. Sound familiar? ---
**Author:** ![Gamaliel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gamaliel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gamaliel)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/17 "2004-04-09T00:18:56Z")
“spiritual aspect of being a superhero”? God, it’s gonna be a Creed video. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/18 "2004-04-09T00:44:55Z")
Daniel Craig as Rorschach? What? Far too good looking. I see a William H. Macy or a Steve Buscemi as Rorshach. Count me as someone who strongly feels this amazing graphic novel will not work as a 2 hour movie, but would probably see it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/19 "2004-04-09T00:54:22Z")
Ooh, maybe Ozymandias will sing- “I live in a retreat on the arctic ice, With a lynx and three Vietnamese guys, My sacrifice.” ---
**Author:** ![Spudo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Spudo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spudo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998/20 "2004-04-09T01:09:06Z")
The best that can be hoped for is a good movie based on Watchmen. There is no way in hell that the entire thing could be made into a film, in fact I suspect only the main plot could be worked into a movie. This doesn’t mean it’ll be a bad movie, just that it will NOT be Watchmen. It’ll lose much of its punch and the story will be must more simplisitic. This makes me wonder why exactly a studio would pick Watchmen for a movie, but it could turn out to be worth seeing. The bare-bones main plot alone is still very good. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchman-watchmen/238998.md?page=2)