# Watchmen 2009 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232 "2017-03-28T17:41:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/21 "2017-03-28T22:23:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The point of Moore’s book was that normal well-adjusted people don’t put on masks and go out to fight crime. The people who do that are borderline crazy and the deeper you got into being a superhero, the crazier you got. Moore saw that the mentality of a superhero isn’t all that far from the mentality of a serial killer. But…I got that message from the movie, too. Was it not there? ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/22 "2017-03-28T22:37:52Z")
Except making Manhattan the unifying force doesn’t make sense since he is a direct product of the US. The ruskies would never believe they’d turn against their own creation. The catalyst needs to be alien to work or else the logic falls apart. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/23 "2017-03-28T22:39:05Z")
The one complaint I had when I saw it in the theater was that you aren’t shown enough backstory on just how much Laurie despised the Comedian. I mean, you’re shown why, but I didn’t feel the gravitas when the other shoe dropped. ---
**Author:** ![TYphoonSignal8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@TYphoonSignal8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TYphoonSignal8)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/24 "2017-03-29T00:42:14Z")
That’s an epic moment in comic books, generally, when the dominos tumble for Laurie. (It is also particularly intriguing because Manhattan must have known, and said nothing.) I haven’t seen the movie because of the bad press, but I think having read these reviews that now I will. > [@Quimby](#): > > I don’t think Moore saw Dr. Manhattan as crazy. His point with him is someone who was so powerful would eventually stop caring about Humanity because he could no longer relate to Humanity. I don’t agree but that was his argument. Manhattan was entirely inhuman. He perceived time in a different way: he could perceive and anticipate cause and effect as well as the spiral iterations of chaos, but could not do anything about it or even control his own actions despite the insight, trapped inside the mechanisms that he alone could perceive. He was certainly incapable of love, and even his lust seemed preprogrammed. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/25 "2017-03-29T02:19:07Z")
My biggest complaint was one bit of casting/performance. Not a fan of the movie Ozymandias. The comic version had a facade that was softer-edged and seemingly helpful - a charismatic guy who did a much better job deflecting blame from himself. Movie Ozymandias on the other hand pretty much telegraphed his role as a villain - his performance would only have worked for me if he _was_ a red herring. Otherwise I thought it was pretty solid and most of the rest of the performances were spot-on. Particularly Rorschach and the Comedian. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/26 "2017-03-29T07:47:09Z")
All in all, I liked the movie a lot, and I respect the fact that they decided to keep the original 80’s setting, but still… it didn’t quite work for me. The obsession with Richard Nixon, Vietnam, the Doomsday Clock and so on came across as dated Boomer angst. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/27 "2017-03-29T09:56:03Z")
The opening credits were sensational. And then there was the movie. It wasn’t bad, but the anarchist plot was basically dumb. It might have been good enough to impress tweens back when the book came out, but the movie wasn’t straight-forward enough for your average tween. V for Vendetta did a bit better by having a minimal cast, minimal dialogue, focusing on ‘coolness’ as the only real argument for anarchism, and having a palette that your average goth can appreciate. Watchmen has too many characters, too much dialogue, isn’t stupid enough to appeal to the masses nor smart enough to appeal to the trend setters. Some nice visuals, but they’re too colorful and too non-stylized to really last in ones memory in any particular way. I didn’t hate it, but I can’t really remember much about it beyond the opening sequence and giant blue dong. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/28 "2017-03-29T11:06:34Z")
> [@TYphoonSignal8](#): > > That’s an epic moment in comic books, generally, when the dominos tumble for Laurie. > > (It is also particularly intriguing because Manhattan must have known, and said nothing.) > > I haven’t seen the movie because of the bad press, but I think having read these reviews that now I will. Must he have known though? I’m not sure if he could “see” events that occurred before his creation. Plus, I didn’t get the feeling he omnisciently knew everything - he could “look” at a certain point in space-time, but he didn’t automatically have all knowledge just due to his powers. > [@](#): > > Manhattan was entirely inhuman. He perceived time in a different way: he could perceive and anticipate cause and effect as well as the spiral iterations of chaos, but could not do anything about it or even control his own actions despite the insight, trapped inside the mechanisms that he alone could perceive. He was certainly incapable of love, and even his lust seemed preprogrammed. Heck, remember on Mars, he was telling Laurie something like “In eleven minutes, you tell me you’ve been sleeping with Dreiberg.”, then when she actually told him, he acted surprised and hurt: “You’ve been sleeping with Dreiberg?” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/29 "2017-03-29T11:49:54Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Not happy with how Rorschach’s handling of the kidnaper was changed, purely to keep it from looking like an influence from “Saw.” Not “Saw” - [the original “Mad Max” movie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Max). > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Max eventually locates Johnny, who is looting a deceased car-crash victim for a pair of boots. Max handcuffs Johnny’s ankle to a wrecked vehicle, and sets a crude time-delay fuse involving a slow petrol leak and Johnny’s lighter. Max throws Johnny a hacksaw, leaving him the choice of sawing through either the handcuffs or his ankle in order to escape within the given time limit. As Max drives away from the bridge, the vehicle explodes, apparently killing Johnny. I assumed Moore was referencing the film when he put this in the book. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > My biggest complaint was one bit of casting/performance. Not a fan of the movie Ozymandias. The comic version had a facade that was softer-edged and seemingly helpful - a charismatic guy who did a much better job deflecting blame from himself. Movie Ozymandias on the other hand pretty much telegraphed his role as a villain - his performance would only have worked for me if he _was_ a red herring. This was the biggest gripe I have about the film. Veidt ought to have been a square-jawed, clean-cut, Matthew McConnuaghey type who looked like a stereotypical do-gooder. Instead they made him a rat-faced creep from the get-go, thus removing the character’s biggest asset as a villain. I also agree that the sex scene went on for too long and that the non-squid ending didn’t entirely make sense (although I accept that using the squid would have required a lot more backstory the film didn’t have time for) but otherwise I thought overall it was an excellent adaptation. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/30 "2017-03-29T15:54:37Z")
All i know is that Rorshcachs casting was brilliant. It’s not like Jackie Earle Haley was on the tip of everyone’s tongue in 2009. What’s next, Ike Eisenmann as Captain Boomerang? (Fuck Jai Courtney…he looks like a supermodel) ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/31 "2017-03-29T16:20:23Z")
Yep, I enjoyed the book and the movie. Haven’t cared much for Zach’s work since, though. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/32 "2017-03-29T16:22:13Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > All i know is that Rorshcachs casting was brilliant. > > It’s not like Jackie Earle Haley was on the tip of everyone’s tongue in 2009. I also don’t think Jeffrey Dean Morgan could readily be improved on. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/33 "2017-03-29T16:30:06Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > All i know is that Rorshcachs casting was brilliant. > > It’s not like Jackie Earle Haley was on the tip of everyone’s tongue in 2009. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I also don’t think Jeffrey Dean Morgan could readily be improved on. Yeah, I wasn’t crazy about some of the casting decisions, but these two are so perfect they erase all of the other casting sins. I love the novel, but only like the movie a lot. I haven’t seen the director’s cut or the version with The Black Freighter cut in. I’ll have to see them, maybe I’ll like it better. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/34 "2017-03-29T16:50:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Not “Saw” - [the original “Mad Max” movie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Max). > > I assumed Moore was referencing the film when he put this in the book. Sure, and it’s been used elsewhere as well. The specific comments I remember from Snyder et al. was that the original sequence looked too much like something from _Saw_. Whether that’s a valid assessment and why they were worried about having an original sequence taken for a copycat, when there are so many others that could be said the same of, is I guess irrelevant. It did put a vicious slant on Rorschach that tainted the character, IMHO - he was merciless, he was brutal, he was absolutely unforgiving, but the hacksaw sequence was far more to his character than just hacking the guy to death. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/35 "2017-03-29T16:52:10Z")
No one’s quite picked up on it, but if I were to edit the film, the first change I’d make is the beginning of the Dan-Laurie restaurant scene. The whole sequence where he walks in, takes off his glasses, sees her, goes gooey, she sees him, goes gooey… OMFG. Just effing awful. I’d cut it to him walking in and taking off his glasses, then the long cut across the restaurant where they’re seated. The romcom goo served absolutely no purpose and yanks you right out of the narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/36 "2017-03-29T18:30:43Z")
> [@TYphoonSignal8](#): > > Manhattan was entirely inhuman. He perceived time in a different way: he could perceive and anticipate cause and effect as well as the spiral iterations of chaos, but could not do anything about it or even control his own actions despite the insight, trapped inside the mechanisms that he alone could perceive. He was certainly incapable of love, and even his lust seemed preprogrammed. I loved this movie, more even than the graphic novel, and that is rare with me. I saw this in part as a demonstration that “the opposite of love isn’t hate; it’s indifference”. Dr. Manhattan sets this up with the chilling line from his origin story - “I feel fear for the last time”, and then when he is having sex with Jupiter and says “You had my full attention” when he obviously didn’t mean it. As he becomes less and less human, he pays less and less attention to people until the scene where he finds out his old girlfriend has cancer because of him, and screams “Leave me ALONE!” and empties the room. Contrast that with the other characters, who still care. Even about the ones they have been battling. Even Ozymandias, who is the bad guy, cares enough about humanity to start a war and kill millions, in order to save billions. Or Rorschach, who cares so much about the truth that he has to die to preserve the lives of billions. Even when they recognize that how they express their caring is absurd - “getting dressed up and going out at 3:00am to do something stupid” - they still do it, because it is how they can still connect. That’s why Night Owl can’t perform sexually without his identity as Night Owl - only after he reclaims it can he consummate his relationship with Silk Stalking. Plus the brilliance of some of the lines. > [@](#): > > I’m not locked in here with you. You’re locked in here with me! or > [@](#): > > You know the kind of cancer that eventually you get better from? > > That ain’t the kind I got. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/37 "2017-03-29T19:24:03Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I also don’t think Jeffrey Dean Morgan could readily be improved on. He was great in No Country for Old Men 😃 By the way, I think it’s appropriate to post this, it’s the best: [Watchmen if it were a Saturday morning cartoon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w) ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/38 "2017-03-29T19:39:52Z")
I didn’t like the movie at all the first time I saw it but enjoyed it a lot more on second viewing for some reason. One thing I didn’t like about it was the portrayal of Ozymandias, in the movie he comes across as a fairly standard sinister billionaire, in the graphic novel he was a lot more relatable and likable. In fact there is a small part where he is writing a ‘self help’ section and you get the impression that his enthusiasm isn’t faked, he really does want to help other people, it reminded me of the quote by Mark Twain, _'“Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.”._ I don’t think that comes across in the movie at all, Ozymandias is basically a good man who ends up doing terrible things for what he believes are the right reasons. Also, why the ‘boys’ folder on his computer in his office, am I missing something or what was the point of adding that? _(I have no strong feelings either way on his being portrayed as gay or bisexual)_ ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/39 "2017-03-29T20:49:13Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > He was great in No Country for Old Men 😃 > > By the way, I think it’s appropriate to post this, it’s the best: [Watchmen if it were a Saturday morning cartoon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w) That is amazing! As for the movie, I feel like I need to watch the extended edition to re-evaluate. I actually own it on blu-ray, but have never watched it. I only saw it in the theatre on original release. I liked a lot of things about it, but overall I came away feeling a bit meh. Some of that is just expectation because I am such a fan of the original novel, but a lot of it was the ending change. I just feel like it made _much_ less sense than the space squid (say _that_ with a straight face). Nuclear attack is just so…pedestrian compared to that - and I don’t feel like it would have motivated Comedian’s “break” in the same way. Totally agree about the unsuitability of Ozy - bad casting and directing there. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232/40 "2017-03-29T21:10:04Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > Also, why the ‘boys’ folder on his computer in his office, am I missing something or what was the point of adding that? _(I have no strong feelings either way on his being portrayed as gay or bisexual)_ That was a reference back to something in the comic (I don’t think it was in the movie) - after Rorschach meets with Ozy the first time to talk about the Comedian’s murder, he writes in his journal: “Meeting with Veidt left bad taste in mouth. He is pampered and decadent, betraying even his own shallow, liberal affectations. Possibly homosexual? Must remember to investigate further.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-2009/783232.md?page=3)