# Watchmen: The Movie (reviews and spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579 "2009-02-19T18:47:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/241 "2009-03-09T23:55:57Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Putting in all the ugly and uncomfortable details is part of the point right? Yes, it is. But the scene itself wasn’t ugly or uncomfortable on its own merits, it was out of place and seemed to be either a way for the film makers to scream “mature film” or indulge in some sort of fetish. Actually, you can substitute “sex scene in film” for “violence in film” and I’d give the same response. I found the sex and violence to be unnecessarily over the top. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/242 "2009-03-10T00:08:15Z")
> [@Asylum](#): > > or indulge in some sort of fetish. Um, you did get the point that “indulging in some sort of fetish” is _precisely_ what that scene in the movie was about, right? ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/243 "2009-03-10T00:23:32Z")
Personally, I think Watchmen is the best Comic movie ever made. Although The Dark Knight Returns is a great movie, it ain’t realy based on a comic book, just the comic book characters. I’m glad i didn’t read the original comic series. It would have tainted my enjoyment of this movie. I think I can now finally read the series. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/244 "2009-03-10T00:38:02Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Ok, I didn’t make it to the film this weekend like I was supposed to (:mad:) so tell me if I am talking out of my ass, but it seems to me that your reaction is exactly why they needed to put in all the humpy details. Actually, I have that reaction generally to most R-rated movies. I guess I’m not so enamored of sex scenes that I need to see them in any detail (or if I do, I’ll just get a porno for that or, conceivably, an NC-17-ish movie like _Fatal Attraction_ or _Basic Instinct_ where the sex is pretty much the whole plot) and it looked to me like it just brought a movie that was already trying to tell a huge story to an abrupt halt. Dan gets aroused by superhero action far more than just wrasslin’ on the couch. It’s not necessary to overexplain this; he goes after Laurie good and hard and we can cut to her smoking afterward and asking “Dan, was it good? Did the costumes make it good?” Perhaps my impressions are tainted by the audience snickering and the over-the-top music choice. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/245 "2009-03-10T00:38:47Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Why Dr. Manhattan does _anything_ is a bit of a mystery. For instance, he argues that life is uninteresting while _knowing_ he won’t feel that way in the future. He reacts with angry surprise when he’s ambushed in the televised interview, while _knowing_ this is what’s going to happen. His dialogue at times suggests he’s constrained to act out the future he’s already seen, even when it might make sense to use that foreknowledge to make different choices. Or perhaps he _could_ make different choices, but it never occurs to him to do so since for him the future is as real as the present. I don’t think he could make different choices, I think there’s some line about how he’s just ‘a puppet that can see the strings’, meaning just as constrained as everybody else, though aware of that. However, I’ve always tended to see that a little differently – it’s not as if he merely can see the future (and past), it’s just that to him it’s indistinguishable from the present, i.e. in a way, it’s actually happening to him right now; he is being surprised at the interview, all the while he is also chasing jailbait on patrol and contemplating life on Mars – it’s all just ‘now’ to him. That doesn’t appear to mesh with the whole tachyons obscuring the future thing, but I’d say that was totally unnecessary and inconsequential in the first place – I don’t think he’s ever been shown as being able to alter the future based on what he ‘sees’ in it (and how would he, since it’s already happening to him), so while he may or may not be able to see the future and Ozy’s plans at some given point, it’s just all the same already happening to him, but he can’t act on it any differently than he has always acted and will always act. OK, I’ll just finish this beer and then go to bed; if this still makes sense in the morning, I’ll be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/246 "2009-03-10T00:44:17Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > it’s all just ‘now’ to him. That doesn’t appear to mesh with the whole tachyons obscuring the future thing, but I’d say that was totally unnecessary and inconsequential in the first place – I don’t think he’s ever been shown as being able to alter the future based on what he ‘sees’ in it (and how would he, since it’s already happening to him), so while he may or may not be able to see the future and Ozy’s plans at some given point, it’s just all the same already happening to him, but he can’t act on it any differently than he has always acted and will always act. The tachyon thing, I gathered, was just a way in the comic to keep Jon from revealing key details about how the story ends, and hinting that WW3 was the cause. I assume that as he finds a new galaxy and lives on indefinitely, he will continue to perceive time in his simultaneous way, with a fuzzy gap around November 1st, 1985. ---
**Author:** ![Tool\_of\_the\_Conspiracy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tool\_of\_the\_Conspiracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tool_of_the_Conspiracy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/247 "2009-03-10T01:25:40Z")
Walking out of the theater, my friend and I both thought it was pretty much perfect. My three biggest problems with it are: [ul] [li]The masks’ super-human strength undermines the “Dr. Manhattan vs. humans” dichotomy.[/li][li]Some of Nite Owl & Silk Spectre’s uses of that strength blur the “Comedian & Rorschach vs. empathetic characters” contrast. When the heroes do things like stabbing a street thug in the neck, there isn’t much difference between them and the sociopathic anti-heroes. (And we lose the irony of those anti-heroes being the ones who won’t go along with Veidt’s plan.)[/li][li]In my opinion, Rorschach shows too many emotions in his death scene. He should have been as “flat” as ever, until the final outburst.[/li][/ul] I support the changes they made to the climax and the child-killer flashback. The Giant Space Squid would have taken too much exposition, and the Mad Max setup would have been seen as a ripoff. My favorite addition probably is Rorschach taking the time to put his hat back on while fighting Ozymandias. I would have liked to see more evolution of the costumes of the Comedian and Dr. Manhattan. I thought the Big Blue Dong hung unnaturally still and straight. Others have used words like “flapping”, but I must not have been looking at it during those scenes… ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/248 "2009-03-10T02:36:56Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Um, you did get the point that “indulging in some sort of fetish” is _precisely_ what that scene in the movie was about, right? Yes, I did, and a less gratuitous sex scene would make that point. The potential fetish I was referring to was the film makers. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/249 "2009-03-10T02:50:25Z")
> [@Asylum](#): > > Yes, it is. But the scene itself wasn’t ugly or uncomfortable on its own merits, it was out of place and seemed to be either a way for the film makers to scream “mature film” or indulge in some sort of fetish. Actually, you can substitute “sex scene in film” for “violence in film” and I’d give the same response. I found the sex and violence to be unnecessarily over the top. Jeebus cripes, it was a garden-variety Skinamax style sex scene. Hours of the stuff is available every evening on premium cable. It didn’t mean jack, except it was a nice relief from all the violence. ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/250 "2009-03-10T03:14:49Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Jeebus cripes, it was a garden-variety Skinamax style sex scene. Hours of the stuff is available every evening on premium cable. It didn’t mean jack, except it was a nice relief from all the violence. I wasn’t generically criticizing gratuitous sex (which I like overall), I was criticizing gratuitous sex in the movie. It was out of place and distracting, and a subtler scene would have made the same point. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/251 "2009-03-10T09:22:35Z")
> [@Asylum](#): > > I wasn’t generically criticizing gratuitous sex (which I like overall), I was criticizing gratuitous sex in the movie. It was out of place and distracting, and a subtler scene would have made the same point. Thank you. My feelings exactly. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/252 "2009-03-10T13:14:28Z")
Well, I thought they did as good a job as was possible in a 3-hour film. My biggest complaints were that the actors were too young for the roles. Though for Silk Spectre II’s nude scenes, I am willing to forgive. And they didn’t get Nite Owl’s cape right. Probably wouldn’t work in the real world anyway. by Zebra ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/253 "2009-03-10T13:23:38Z")
Well, I thought they did as good a job as was possible in a 3-hour film. My biggest complaints were that the actors were too young for the roles. Though for Silk Spectre II’s nude scenes, I am willing to forgive. And they didn’t get Nite Owl’s cape right. Probably wouldn’t work in the real world anyway. > [@](#): > > by **Zebra** > I don’t think 1985 ever felt like The Watchmen. > > The 80s were full of optimism. Reagan was Mr. Freaking sunshine. Everybody was in love with Lady Di. The NYC in the comic has much more to do with NYC of the 70s. In fact Rorschach is basically Bernie Goetz with a mask. I graduated from high school and started college in 1985. A whole lot of my schoolmates were terrified of the threat of nuclear war, to the point of supporting a unilateral “freeze”. A lot of Democrats were certain that Reagan was going to destroy us all. And Reagan was elected partially as a reaction to the urban crime of the 1970s. > [@](#): > > by **Evil Captor** > So SSI DID come back to the comedian and say, “Let’s finish this thing.” That’s creepy. More likely, the second time he took a more subtle approach, and then asked more politely. Still creepy, but even in the comic, SS1 was psychologically a bit of a mess. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/254 "2009-03-10T13:25:13Z")
It occurs to me that if Blake/Comedian is going to have Army pallbearers at his funeral (better, in an American setting and given his military service, than the mock-Edwardian top-hatted guys from the GN), there should also have been a rifle salute and a bugler playing “Taps.” Is there a real cemetery in that place, relative to the Manhattan skyline? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/255 "2009-03-10T13:30:16Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > > [@Zebra](#): > > > > I don’t think 1985 ever felt like The Watchmen. > > > > The 80s were full of optimism. Reagan was Mr. Freaking sunshine. Everybody was in love with Lady Di. The NYC in the comic has much more to do with NYC of the 70s. In fact Rorschach is basically Bernie Goetz with a mask. > > I graduated from high school and started college in 1985. A whole lot of my schoolmates were terrified of the threat of nuclear war, to the point of supporting a unilateral “freeze”. A lot of Democrats were certain that Reagan was going to destroy us all. And Reagan was elected partially as a reaction to the urban crime of the 1970s. The 1985 in the book was an alternate 1985 where Nixon had never fallen out of power. Remember Blake’s line about not having had a night like this since Woodward and Bernstein? The 1970s never ended in the Watchverse. At least not until it got squidded back to the 19th Century. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/256 "2009-03-10T13:30:52Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > …51-star flags on Comedian’s comedy and on… Comedian’s coffin. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/257 "2009-03-10T13:45:37Z")
> [@](#): > > by \*\*Elendil’s Heir \*\* > It occurs to me that if Blake/Comedian is going to have Army pallbearers at his funeral (better, in an American setting and given his military service, than the mock-Edwardian top-hatted guys from the GN), there should also have been a rifle salute and a bugler playing “Taps.” It was also odd that all six of the pallbearers were wearing captain’s bars on their epaulettes. Then again, private funerals at private cemeteries don’t always do the full ceremony. The pallbearers might have been personal friends of Blake, or immediate co-workers. Since he spent his later years doing more undercover work than public work, it seems to me more likely that his funeral was deliberately low-key. Dr. Manhattan’s handlers would probably have preferred that he not be there. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/258 "2009-03-10T14:25:32Z")
Just started this thread, which might be of interest, about the ramifications of Vietnamese statehood: [If Vietnam were a U.S. state.... - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=509795) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/259 "2009-03-10T16:55:06Z")
> [@Asylum](#): > > I wasn’t generically criticizing gratuitous sex (which I like overall), I was criticizing gratuitous sex in the movie. It was out of place and distracting, and a subtler scene would have made the same point. I guess my point would be, a subtler scene would NOT have made the same point, or at least, not as effectively. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/260 "2009-03-10T16:57:15Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > More likely, the second time he took a more subtle approach, and then asked more politely. Still creepy, but even in the comic, SS1 was psychologically a bit of a mess. Sure, he was more consensual the second time around, but she still knew he’d tried to rape her. Most women hate people who try to rape them. So I’ll buy that whole “psychologically a bit of a mess” bit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579.md?page=14)