# Watchmen: The Movie (reviews and spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579 "2009-02-19T18:47:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/301 "2009-03-12T15:33:22Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Was the implication that Veidt arranged that crash? Not in 1974. Besides, I think Captain Metropolis had been retired at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/302 "2009-03-12T16:14:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I didn’t get the slightest whiff of that, nor can I imagine why Veidt would do such a thing. Agreed. He may have been the world’s smartest (and most devious) man, but not every famous person’s death after WW2 was Veidt’s doing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/303 "2009-03-12T19:02:27Z")
Actually, on reflection, that just makes Comedian plugging Kennedy from the grassy knoll even more annoying. The only thing like this in the comic was a joke Blake told at a cocktail party (and it was actually quite amusing, both to me and the other characters) and the vaguest speculation by Veidt that Nixon was involved, somehow. In November 1963, wasn’t Nixon in semi-retirement, having the year before lost his bid for Governor of California, and was well into his “wilderness” years? Whacking Kennedy surely wasn’t going to get Nixon back on top anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/304 "2009-03-12T21:32:48Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Absolutely right. Which is why several of us have said that we don’t need to see _anything_- passionate kissing, up against the ship’s hull, passioned moans, cut to after-scene. Just like in a James Bond film. It’s not about raunch or seeing penetration, it’s about the fact that Teh Pr0n (even Teh Softcore Pr0n) really doesn’t belong in “Mainstream” films, IMHO. It’s jarring. Sure it does. Depends on the movie and the context, but there are places it belongs. The movie “Body Heat” for example, would have been less powerful without the sex scenes, and they arguably should have been more explicit in that scene. Most 80s sword and sandal movies were raunchy and were the better for it. > [@](#): > > Look, I’m going to be crude here- if I’m watching porn, I want to be able to have a wank as well. In the privacy of my own home, I can put a porn film on, entertain myself, then turn it off and carry on with my day. > > In the theatre, though, I’m just sitting there unable to do anything. It takes me out of the movie experience, and reminds me of an ex-gf who promised hot naked threesomes with her friends and then never delivered on it. It leaves you hot and bothered, and unsatisfied. > > So, with regards to sex scenes in film, my personal feelings (and it would seem those of other posters as well) are either do it properly (ie in an X-rated explicit hardcore porno film) or don’t do it at all (The James Bond approach). This kinda sounds like a filmmaker equivalent to the Saudi Arabian notion that it is women’s responsiblity to go around in burkhas alla time because the sight of any portion of their bodies would arouse men and the men would rape them and it would be the woman’s fault because men can’t be held responsible for their sexual urges. I mean, I’m sorry if sex scenes frustrate you, but I just enjoy them for what they are and don’t feel frustrated at all. I find them arousing but they don’t lead me down a path toward inevitable, tragic, theatrical orgasm or a serious case of blue balls. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/305 "2009-03-12T22:34:25Z")
I’m also a bit mystified by the general rejection of sex in mainstream movies – movies portray (aspects of) life, and sex is a part of life; to reduce its role in films to mere masturbation fodder is akin to reducing its role in real life to simply a means of achieving orgasm. ---
**Author:** ![Anduinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Anduinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduinel)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/306 "2009-03-12T23:23:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Whether or not Hooded Justice was still around (and I like that the comic was vague on these points, as it was on what role if any the Comedian had with regards to JFK and Woodward/Bernstein), Captain Metropolis definitely was not - the comic mentions him being killed in a car crash in 1974. [Not necessarily.](http://watchmen.wikia.com/wiki/The_Fate_of_Hooded_Justice_and_Captain_Metropolis) ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/307 "2009-03-12T23:41:38Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I’m also a bit mystified by the general rejection of sex in mainstream movies – movies portray (aspects of) life, and sex is a part of life; to reduce its role in films to mere masturbation fodder is akin to reducing its role in real life to simply a means of achieving orgasm. I think there’s some really good insight to this, but that’s not what my issue is. Being sick is as common a part of real life as sex is, as is sleeping, driving an hour to work, and taking shits, all of which are actions that can have a profound effect on a story but depicted in excess detail can be dull or distracting. The amount of time spent depicting any action, however mundane or extraordinary, in a creative work should be equal to how it benefits the work. So, in a porn movie, where the sex is the point, lots of time should be spent on it, but in an action or drama film the amount needed decreases greatly. I feel that the amount in Watchmen was too much. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/308 "2009-03-13T03:03:09Z")
Just got out of WM! FREAKIN’ ROCKED!!! Not as violent or as sexual as I expected from the descriptions here. Ending change wasn’t all that major. I did miss the city people interactions- the newspaper vendor, the Black Freighter reader, the taxi driver & her ex-GF. I hope to see a lot of that in the DVD extras. Blue penis occurence was about what I expected. Btw, if Miss Ackerman ever decides to get a boob job, she should be forcibly restrained. Those babies are perfect! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/309 "2009-03-13T03:33:06Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Of course, even at the point in the movie where he talks about that, I was thinking “One data point does not a pattern make.” That was a big assumption on Rorschach’s part which led him in a grossly wrong direction until it was too late. Wasn’t there, in addition to the murder of the Comedian, the attack on Veidt and his assistant and the exile of Dr. Manhattan? Maybe I’m getting my timeline wrong, but I think those three things happened around the same time. > [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Little Walter Kovacs looked up to Truman for decided to nuke Japan as well. Well, part of the reason little Walter looked up to Truman is because he knew his father supported Truman and his mother opposed him, and he hated his mother and loved his absent father. It’s interesting, though, that the reason that he gave to justify Truman dropping the bomb (that it stopped the war and saved even more lives) is the same reason Veidt gives for his actions.) Also, quick question…who killed Moloch? Rohrschach is arrested for it, but we know he didn’t do it. Did Moloch kill himself, because of the cancer, or did Veidt have him killed because he knew the Comedian visited him before his murder? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/310 "2009-03-13T03:38:00Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Wasn’t there, in addition to the murder of the Comedian, the attack on Veidt and his assistant and the exile of Dr. Manhattan? Maybe I’m getting my timeline wrong, but I think those three things happened around the same time. Beginning, middle, and end. The attack on Veidt happened after Rorschach warned him, I think. Manhattan’s exile came near to the end, though. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/311 "2009-03-13T03:38:56Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Wasn’t there, in addition to the murder of the Comedian, the attack on Veidt and his assistant and the exile of Dr. Manhattan? Maybe I’m getting my timeline wrong, but I think those three things happened around the same time. The comic seemed to take place in a weeks time. The movie seemed to take place in two to three days, with the Comdian’s death on the first day and the attack on Veidt and the ending taking place on the third. > [@](#): > > Also, quick question…who killed Moloch? Rohrschach is arrested for it, but we know he didn’t do it. Did Moloch kill himself, because of the cancer, or did Veidt have him killed because he knew the Comedian visited him before his murder? Veidt killed Moloch himself. In the movie they show a flashback with Veidt in Moloch’s apartment dressed in the same get-up he used to kill the Comedian. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/312 "2009-03-13T03:41:59Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Wasn’t there, in addition to the murder of the Comedian, the attack on Veidt and his assistant and the exile of Dr. Manhattan? Maybe I’m getting my timeline wrong, but I think those three things happened around the same time. Veidt staged his own assassination attempt to support Rorschach’s mask killer theory. So, it happened after Rorschach decided there was a mask killer. > [@](#): > > Also, quick question…who killed Moloch? Rohrschach is arrested for it, but we know he didn’t do it. Did Moloch kill himself, because of the cancer, or did Veidt have him killed because he knew the Comedian visited him before his murder? Veidt killed Moloch, or had him killed. Left a note in Rorschach’s mail drop and called the cops with a tip. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/313 "2009-03-13T04:16:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Actually, on reflection, that just makes Comedian plugging Kennedy from the grassy knoll even more annoying. The only thing like this in the comic was a joke Blake told at a cocktail party (and it was actually quite amusing, both to me and the other characters) and the vaguest speculation by Veidt that Nixon was involved, somehow. In November 1963, wasn’t Nixon in semi-retirement, having the year before lost his bid for Governor of California, and was well into his “wilderness” years? Whacking Kennedy surely wasn’t going to get Nixon back on top anytime soon. By late 1963 Nixon was a corporate lawyer for, among other big clients, Coca-Cola. He really was in Dallas early on Nov. 22 to speak to a Coca-Cola bottlers’ convention, IIRC. The GN refers to the Comedian being “in Dallas, minding Nixon,” on the day of the assassination, strongly implying that he played a role in the President’s death. If you get in the GN’s Nixonian mindset, you could surmise that he was still resentful of Kennedy’s narrow defeat of him in the 1960 election, and had set his sights once more on the White House. With JFK out of the way, he might have reasoned, he would have an easier time reaching his goal. Mind you, IMHO Nixon was a dirty rotten scoundrel and a crook, easily one of our worst Presidents, but even I don’t think he was a murderer. **Anduinel** , thanks for the link about Hooded Justice’s and Captain Metropolis’s possible later appearance in the GN. I remember seeing those men and wondering what was up with them. Intriguing theory. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/314 "2009-03-13T05:16:06Z")
They really need to make a poster of Silhouette’s V-Day kiss. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/315 "2009-03-13T05:43:39Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I’m also a bit mystified by the general rejection of sex in mainstream movies… In my opinion, sex scenes are tedious and awkward to watch, and shoehorning them into otherwise enjoyable movies wastes time that could be spent on other things. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/316 "2009-03-13T11:33:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > This kinda sounds like a filmmaker equivalent to the Saudi Arabian notion that it is women’s responsiblity to go around in burkhas alla time because the sight of any portion of their bodies would arouse men and the men would rape them and it would be the woman’s fault because men can’t be held responsible for their sexual urges. I don’t think that’s a fair analogy; there’s a huge difference between making women wear burkhas and not wanting to see explicit sex in mainstream films, IMHO. > [@](#): > > I mean, I’m sorry if sex scenes frustrate you, but I just enjoy them for what they are and don’t feel frustrated at all. I find them arousing but they don’t lead me down a path toward inevitable, tragic, theatrical orgasm or a serious case of blue balls. I don’t have a hair trigger in that sense, but yeah, explicit sex scenes in mainstream films can give me an uncomfortable erection and a case of blue balls- depending on the context and other factors, of course. The scene in _Watchmen_ didn’t because I was vaguely insulted that the director had assumed I was a high-school comic book nerd who wanted some Superhero Pr0n, instead of an intelligent filmgoer who wanted a mature story. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/317 "2009-03-13T22:18:03Z")
> [@Anduinel](#): > > [Not necessarily.](http://watchmen.wikia.com/wiki/The_Fate_of_Hooded_Justice_and_Captain_Metropolis) > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > **Anduinel** , thanks for the link about Hooded Justice’s and Captain Metropolis’s possible later appearance in the GN. I remember seeing those men and wondering what was up with them. Intriguing theory. Ditto the thanks from me. I ABSOLUTELY buy this theory. The evidence that gets me is the notion that NOTHING is an accident in Watchmen. Those bowties are bolo masks. No doubt about it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/318 "2009-03-13T23:28:33Z")
Note the four-legged chicken, too (mentioned in some background dialogue in the same scene in the movie). ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/319 "2009-03-14T01:54:12Z")
Question (sorry if someone else mentioned it - I _did_ read the thread): Did anyone else notice Archie flying up in front of the moon like the Batwing in the Batman movie? It was so brief I only barely registered it. I’d like to see a still image. I think it was right before they went to spring Rorscach. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579/320 "2009-03-14T02:34:37Z")
> [@Doctor\_Who](#): > > Question (sorry if someone else mentioned it - I _did_ read the thread): Did anyone else notice Archie flying up in front of the moon like the Batwing in the Batman movie? It was so brief I only barely registered it. I’d like to see a still image. I think it was right before they went to spring Rorscach. Not likely. It was similar (indeed, identical) to the matching panels in the comic at the end of Chapter 7, and this was several years before the Batman movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen-the-movie-reviews-and-spoilers/486579.md?page=17)