# Watchmen **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 24, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948 "2008-02-24T14:22:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/41 "2008-02-27T18:09:26Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] I wondered this too. I’m a “real comics fan” if there exists such a thing, and I would put Maus in the same top 10 list as Watchmen. [/QUOTE] Ah maybe my perception’s wrong then but one or two of the comments in this other comix thread refer to what i was on about. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=435595&highlight=maus](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=435595&highlight=maus) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/42 "2008-02-27T18:28:25Z")
What is this term you keep using: comix? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/43 "2008-02-27T18:29:32Z")
This thread has me wanting to go back and read it again, for the 20th or so time. Every time I re-read it, I discover something new. It’s by far the most intricate and detailed graphic novel/comic/whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-call-it I’ve every read, and I love it. I’m not much of a comic reader, but _Watchmen_ is the gold standard, IMO. I predict that the movie coming out will be vaguely entertaining, but will not be able to do the material justice. I always thought a limited edition series on HBO or Showtime would be the way to go - six 1 hour chapters, each taking 2 issues. Oh well. (At least this movie will be better than a script treatment I read for a Watchmen movie like 20 or so years ago. It was so god-awful I nearly cried. I don’t remember all the details, but IIRC the plot was altered such that Rorschach, Silk Spectre and Nite Owl foil Ozy’s plot [which was completely different than the real one], and end up in some dimension bubble that deposits them in Times Square…_in our universe!_ AAAGGGHH!) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/44 "2008-02-27T18:54:04Z")
[QUOTE=WordMan] \*\*Otto \*\* - can you give us a general ballpark for what “some insane amount” is for a full set? Either based on your sale or what you’ve seen actual sales go for (i.e., not just eBay auctions with outlandish starting bids)? Just curious… [/QUOTE] I’m sorry, it’s been too long and I just don’t remember. I was selling off bits of my collection piecemeal and there were too many comic auctions to keep track. I remember thinking it was a pretty good payoff on my investment. I also made quite a bit from a first edition Dark Knight Returns, a set of Crisis on Infinite Earths and, interestingly, a set of Emerald Dawn. The one auction amount I do remember was an LP of Disney’s “The Haunted Mansion” from c. 1972. I got IIRC $80 for that and learned that Disney fans are insane. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/45 "2008-02-27T19:19:11Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] . . . and learned that Disney fans are insane. [/QUOTE] That sounds like it could be an interesting thread. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/46 "2008-02-27T19:46:45Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] What is this term you keep using: comix? [/QUOTE] I associate the term “comix” with 1960s and '70s alternative comics, subversive stuff like R. Crumb, the drug-influenced _Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers_, and to a lesser extent, small-press, self-published, “unpolished” personal comics like _Yummy Fur_ from the '80s or the works of Harvey Pekar. I wouldn’t consider _Maus_ or _Persepolis_ “comix” due to its mainstream appeal and critical acclaim, nor the work of Will Eisner, Adrian “_Optic Nerve_” Tomine, or Chris “_Jimmy Corrigan_” Ware. However, I think of Charles Burns’ work, such as _Black Hole_, more like the edgy, often-unsettling “comix” of decades past. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/47 "2008-02-27T19:52:00Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] That sounds like it could be an interesting thread. [/QUOTE] Not really. It was one of those LPs with a booklet attached and I got a ton of emails from people wanted _extremely specific_ details about it, along the lines of “what color is the hat on the third ghost from the left on page 7?” I guess there’s some big difference between the ones with the ghosts in the purple hats and the ones with the ghosts in the blue hats or whatever it was. Which, fine by me, I guess I had a good hat color. I wouldn’t mind having a few more just like it. Sorry for the hijack; back to Watchmen! Go Watchmen! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/48 "2008-02-27T19:58:29Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] Actually, there’s a more important reason for the pirate stories. The thing is that they were programmed into the creature along with disturbing music and pictures in order to create a psychic shock. Those pirate stories are what killed half of New York. [/QUOTE] Huh? I understand that the guy who WROTE the disturbing pirate stories also came up with the scenario that killed half of New York. But where is it implied that the pirate stories themselves are what was broadcast into the minds of those killed? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/49 "2008-02-27T20:33:19Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] I associate the term “comix” with 1960s and '70s alternative comics, subversive stuff like R. Crumb, the drug-influenced _Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers_, and to a lesser extent, small-press, self-published, “unpolished” personal comics like _Yummy Fur_ from the '80s or the works of Harvey Pekar. I wouldn’t consider _Maus_ or _Persepolis_ “comix” due to its mainstream appeal and critical acclaim, nor the work of Will Eisner, Adrian “_Optic Nerve_” Tomine, or Chris “_Jimmy Corrigan_” Ware. However, I think of Charles Burns’ work, such as _Black Hole_, more like the edgy, often-unsettling “comix” of decades past. [/QUOTE] Ah yeah Black Hole is amazing as well. I must reread that sometime. Burns’ older Hardboiled Defective Stories is pretty good too. I wasn’t aware of the specific distinction between comics and comix, just thought it was alternate spelling. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/50 "2008-02-27T21:25:36Z")
I liked the pirates/newstand subplot. I also don’t see a movie doing it justice - speaking as someone who’se seen _LoEG/From Hell_ and seeing where Alan is coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/51 "2008-02-28T18:56:52Z")
[QUOTE=TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW] I’ve been staying out of this thread because I didn’t want to get overly emotional, so I won’t really get involved too heavily, but if you think that the pirate story is superfluous, you basically missed the _entire_ point of _Watchmen_. I hate to levy such a cheap charge - “you didn’t get it, dude” - but **seriously.** [/QUOTE] So let’s have your take on it. How does the pirate story fit into the entire point? I loved Watchmen. I should read it again. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/52 "2008-02-28T19:25:23Z")
Great news! The pirate story, “Tales of the Black Freighter,” won’t be part of the Watchmen movie, BUT it will be animated and included on the eventual _Watchmen_ DVD, with Gerard Butler doing the main character’s voice: [http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=22088](http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=22088) Oh, and I agree with **TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW**. I used to hate the pirate story because it took me so far out of the main narrative, but when I reread it more recently, I realized how important it is, because it reflects the actions taken by Ozymandias. Fearful symmetry, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/53 "2008-02-28T23:02:37Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] Great news! The pirate story, “Tales of the Black Freighter,” won’t be part of the Watchmen movie, BUT it will be animated and included on the eventual _Watchmen_ DVD, with Gerard Butler doing the main character’s voice: [http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=22088](http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=22088) Oh, and I agree with **TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW**. I used to hate the pirate story because it took me so far out of the main narrative, but when I reread it more recently, I realized how important it is, because it reflects the actions taken by Ozymandias. Fearful symmetry, if you will. [/QUOTE] Yes, and he makes a remark to Dr Manhattan in their final interview that echoes the last frame of the pirate comic (as you, obviously, already knew). ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/54 "2008-03-06T05:54:53Z")
The actors in their costumes have finally been revealed: [http://rss.warnerbros.com/watchmen/](http://rss.warnerbros.com/watchmen/) ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/55 "2008-03-06T09:52:44Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] The actors in their costumes have finally been revealed: > **[WarnerBros.com | Landing](https://www.warnerbros.com/landing)** [/QUOTE] Wow! That is amazingly good. Fingers crossed… ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/56 "2008-03-06T10:17:29Z")
How many here think Don Quixote is a Great Book? Well, it is a parody, too, and what’s more it parodizes works so far out of the mainstream you’d have a difficult time finding them in bookstores today. However, it rises or falls on its own merits regardless of how many people are really familiar with the things it was written to take the piss out of. Watchmen is easily a Don Quixote. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/57 "2008-03-06T12:13:36Z")
[QUOTE=Tool of the Conspiracy] I didn’t read it until it was collected, and I think I might have enjoyed it more if I had a month between chapters to think about each one. There’s so much _stuff_ in each one that if you read it at a normal pace, you miss most of it [/QUOTE] I read it as a collection too, and I agree, if I had one chapter to pore over for a month, I might have taken it in more. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/58 "2008-03-06T12:45:27Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] The actors in their costumes have finally been revealed: > **[WarnerBros.com | Landing](https://www.warnerbros.com/landing)** [/QUOTE] It does sound like Zack Snyder and his crew have the right attitude about the work. Think I’ll reread the graphic novel. (I wonder – will Dr. Manhattan be nude, blue penis and all? Always seemed like a great visual way to show that, as the only character with actual superpowers, he’s not bound by human rules and conventions.) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/59 "2008-03-06T13:21:58Z")
I’m hoping that’s supposed to be them in their prime and not how they appear as the main story… ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/60 "2008-03-06T15:24:07Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] The actors in their costumes have finally been revealed: > **[WarnerBros.com | Landing](https://www.warnerbros.com/landing)** [/QUOTE] No pics of Dr Manhattan in “costume”? Disappointing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948.md?page=4)