# Watchmen **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 24, 2008, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948 "2008-02-24T14:22:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Justin\_Credible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@Justin\_Credible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Credible)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/61 "2008-03-06T15:49:59Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] The actors in their costumes have finally been revealed: > **[WarnerBros.com | Landing](https://www.warnerbros.com/landing)** [/QUOTE] They’re already done filming? Wow…it seems like they just started. I’m very excited about this, but also worried. You know movies have to appeal to the lowest common denominator to make any money. I hope they can do that while still keeping to a faithful adaptation of the story. Oh, and The Comedian looks awesome. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/62 "2008-03-06T16:25:40Z")
[QUOTE=Just Some Guy] I’m hoping that’s supposed to be them in their prime and not how they appear as the main story… [/QUOTE] This was one of my concerns about the movie when I first heard about the casting: many of the actors are too young. These photos bear that out to some degree - particularly Nite Owl. He looks like Batman in that get-up - where’s the paunch? Comedian looks pretty good even though he is too young and I cannot see his scar. I hope they are able to age him to the point of the haunted, nearly-broken man he is at the time of his death. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/63 "2008-03-07T20:42:27Z")
There’s a shadow on Comedian’s cheek which (I think) is the scar. But the actor is way too young. Darn it, they got Nite-Owl’s cape wrong. That was the coolest part of his outfit. Overall, I think the visuals look good. I refuse to get my hopes up, but there is a small glimmer of hope. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/64 "2008-03-07T21:00:59Z")
Note The Comedian’s mask. In the comic he wore that type of mask before he got his scar. After he got his scar he changed to a hood. So no visible scar is no problem. As for his age, he looks about right for pre-scar Comedian. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/65 "2008-03-07T21:38:17Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] The actors in their costumes have finally been revealed: > **[WarnerBros.com | Landing](https://www.warnerbros.com/landing)** [/QUOTE] I should apply for Randi’s million dollars. I knew they’d look utterly ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/66 "2008-03-07T21:44:21Z")
Bah. This sounds like a bad imitation of The Tick. -FrL- [ducks] ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/67 "2008-03-17T19:58:37Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] The actors in their costumes have finally been revealed: > **[WarnerBros.com | Landing](https://www.warnerbros.com/landing)** [/QUOTE] Hmmmm. Looks pretty damned good. I’m looking forward to it, although it’ll be a very tall order for them to meet my and eight trillion other _Watchmen_ fanboys’ expectations. I was lent the all-in-one-volume graphic novel by a friend in college, and just got swept away by it. Wow. Just… wow. A great story, arresting images, and layer upon layer of meaning and significance, as well as a _tour de force_ of alternative U.S. history. The pirate subplot wasn’t my favorite, but I understand its place in the comics. I have to admit (don’t hit me!), I think it can be jettisoned or drastically pared back in the movie without too much harm being done. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/68 "2008-03-17T20:28:48Z")
I think the pics look great - but I am going to see it regardless. I agree that the Pirate Tale is central to Watchmen in terms of summarizing the basic story and theme for the overall book. But it is also not essential for the movie - film is a different medium that, if done well, wouldn’t need that thread running through it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/69 "2008-03-17T21:35:20Z")
[QUOTE=WordMan] I think the pics look great - but I am going to see it regardless. I agree that the Pirate Tale is central to Watchmen in terms of summarizing the basic story and theme for the overall book. But it is also not essential for the movie - film is a different medium that, if done well, wouldn’t need that thread running through it. [/QUOTE] If they really feel the need for a greek chorus in the film then a television program in the background would be more appropriate anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/70 "2008-03-18T13:33:25Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] Great news! The pirate story, “Tales of the Black Freighter,” won’t be part of the Watchmen movie, BUT it will be animated and included on the eventual _Watchmen_ DVD, with Gerard Butler doing the main character’s voice: [http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=22088](http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=22088) Oh, and I agree with **TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW**. I used to hate the pirate story because it took me so far out of the main narrative, but when I reread it more recently, I realized how important it is, because it reflects the actions taken by Ozymandias. Fearful symmetry, if you will. [/QUOTE] Yes, but. The pirate story is just clubbing you over the head with the theme of the book. I’m a fairly bright guy; I could easily have figured out what the book was about without having it spelled out for me, word by word, in a superfluous pirate comic (which, incidentally, completely destroyed the flow of the narrative). ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/71 "2008-03-18T13:53:51Z")
It’s going to be horrible. _Watchmen_ should never be anything but a comic. I’ve asked this before, but why does everything have to be a movie? What’s gained by making a mediocre, test-marketed, committee-approved movie out of a beloved work? _Watchmen_ especially is a work that belongs to a specific medium: the superhero comic. A big-budget movie will be like a bad translation of a beautiful poem. Here’s an idea. How about some original fantastic movies? You know, like _Star Wars_ or _Terminator_ or _Alien_ or _The Matrix_? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/72 "2008-03-18T15:22:45Z")
It’s not “spelling it out” for you, it’s echoing and reflecting for dramatic irony type of thing. It’s a narrative device - art - not a “for Dummies” helping hand. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/73 "2008-03-18T17:02:00Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s going to be horrible. Watchmen should never be anything but a comic. I’ve asked this before, but why does everything have to be a movie? What’s gained by making a mediocre, test-marketed, committee-approved movie out of a beloved work? Watchmen especially is a work that belongs to a specific medium: the superhero comic. A big-budget movie will be like a bad translation of a beautiful poem. My feelings exactly. _Watchmen_ is a very media-specific work. It’s a comic book about comic books. There are a lot of comic books that could be successfully made into movies; but _Watchmen_ isn’t one of them. Translating it into another medium like film will lose its effect. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/74 "2008-03-18T18:53:52Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] It’s not “spelling it out” for you, it’s echoing and reflecting for dramatic irony type of thing. It’s a narrative device - art - not a “for Dummies” helping hand. [/QUOTE] Yes, I realize that. And it’s certainly true that I’ll never be half the writer that Alan Moore is–but I strongly feel that in this case he made a mistake. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/75 "2008-03-18T20:34:49Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Here’s an idea. How about some original fantastic movies? You know, like _Star Wars_ or _Terminator_ or _Alien_ or _The Matrix_? [/QUOTE] This is a joke, right? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/76 "2008-03-18T23:07:20Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] It’s a comic book about comic books. [/QUOTE] If Zack Snyder is smart — and I will grant you, there isn’t much intellectual heft in his previous two movies, however visually dynamic they may be, but bear with me — he will recognize this, and he will transplant the themes of the comic book to the movie world. There’s no reason you couldn’t look at how Moore and Gibbons were deconstructing the archetypes of the genre, in print, and translate the same thematic approach as a deconstruction of the archetypes of the _film version_ of the genre. We have enough superhero movies, now, to have injected the sensibilities of the genre into the mainstream, and to thereby support an examination of the form of the same nature as the original. I’m not saying that’s what Snyder’s doing, or that if it is, he’s up to it. All I’m saying is that while a movie about comic books would almost certainly fall flat, a movie about movie superhero mythology has great potential. And just as one teeny, tiny piece of evidence that this is what the movie has in mind, look closely at the picture of Ozymandius: _his suit has nipples._ That, for those familiar with how comic book heroes have been treated in Hollywood, is a fantastic little piece of wit. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/77 "2008-03-19T00:03:12Z")
… or maybe just bad costume design. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/78 "2008-03-19T00:22:02Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] … or maybe just bad costume design. [/QUOTE] Or really good costume design, considering Ozymandias’ costume is inspired by ancient Roman and Egyptian armor that had sculpted abs as well as nipples. Joel Schumacher missed the mark by putting those on Batman and Robin, but for Ozymandias, it works, and I think Snyder gets that. Of course, Dave Gibbons and two other excellent comic book artists, Adam Hughes and John Cassaday, contributed to the costume designs for the movie, and they all know what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/79 "2008-03-19T01:50:54Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] This is a joke, right? [/QUOTE] no ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948/80 "2008-03-19T02:55:15Z")
> [@](#): > > If Zack Snyder is smart — and I will grant you, there isn’t much intellectual heft in his previous two movies, however visually dynamic they may be, but bear with me — he will recognize this, and he will transplant the themes of the comic book to the movie world. There’s no reason you couldn’t look at how Moore and Gibbons were deconstructing the archetypes of the genre, in print, and translate the same thematic approach as a deconstruction of the archetypes of the film version of the genre. We have enough superhero movies, now, to have injected the sensibilities of the genre into the mainstream, and to thereby support an examination of the form of the same nature as the original. > > I’m not saying that’s what Snyder’s doing, or that if it is, he’s up to it. All I’m saying is that while a movie about comic books would almost certainly fall flat, a movie about movie superhero mythology has great potential. But even if Snyder was possessed by the collective ghosts of Eisenstein, Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Powell, Truffaut, and Welles, he’d still end up making a movie. And it might be a great movie. But that would be missing the point. The essential element of _Watchmen_ was self-reference and you can’t make a self-referential movie about anything other than a movie. As you wrote, he might possibly make a self-referential movie about the superhero movie genre and it might be great. Or he might make a great action movie. But it won’t be _Watchmen_ - it’ll be a different work with the same name and some common characters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/watchmen/438948.md?page=5)