# Water is older than the Sun--agreeing with Genesis Chapter One **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482 "2018-05-02T23:34:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/221 "2018-05-14T14:06:57Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > **ned12** , trust me, you don’t have to build your faith in God or reverence for the Bible on bad science and bad biblical scholarship. You can be a perfectly faithful Christian and reject young earth creationism, and embrace science as part of God’s method of revealing the universe to us. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that if you acknowledge the Big Bang, you have to give up on God. Yep works fine for Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Unitarian, Congregationalist, United Church of Christ, and lots of Baptist churches. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/222 "2018-05-14T15:52:23Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Yep works fine for Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Unitarian, Congregationalist, United Church of Christ, and lots of Baptist churches. Add to that the Big Bang theory was first proposed by Georges Lemaître, a devout Roman Catholic priest (who also happened to be an astronomer and physicist). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/223 "2018-05-14T20:14:20Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > No Greek philosophers dabbling in what was later called science could be anywhere near this accurate like the Holy Bible. To say nothing of getting these amazingly correct scientific statements to be accepted by the ancient Kingdom of Israel. A quintuple miracle! I’d also remind you that the ancient Greeks not only knew the Earth was round, but approximately how big it was, too. Unlike the literal take on the Bible, which posits a flat Earth (with a canonical four corners). ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/224 "2018-05-14T20:29:47Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > No Greek philosophers dabbling in what was later called science could be anywhere near this accurate like the Holy Bible. To say nothing of getting these amazingly correct scientific statements to be accepted by the ancient Kingdom of Israel. A quintuple miracle! “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” The sky is describe as a solid inverted bowl over the earth, coloured blue from the heavenly ocean above it. Rain, snow, wind and hail were kept in storehouses outside the raqia, which had “windows” to allow them in. The waters for Noah’s flood entered when the “windows of heaven” were opened. Genesis 1:6-8 Deuteronomy 4:32 Deuteronomy 28:12 Exodus 24:9-10 Ezekiel 1:26 Job 38:37 What parts of this are “accurate”? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/225 "2018-05-14T21:54:01Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’d also remind you that the ancient Greeks not only knew the Earth was round, but approximately how big it was, too. Unlike the literal take on the Bible, which posits a flat Earth (with a canonical four corners). Which means Zeus and his buddies exist. Even better, they found Troy, which means the Iliad was true and so are the gods mentioned therein. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2018, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/226 "2018-05-17T09:48:11Z")
Oxygen is WAY older than the sun. > **[The first stars formed when the universe was less than 2 percent its](https://astronomy.com/news/2018/05/first-stars-from-oxygen)** > > In a new study set for publication tomorrow in the journal Nature, an international team of astronomers used this impressive array to observe an extremely distant galaxy called MACS1149-JD1. Within t ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/227 "2018-05-18T16:57:49Z")
Interestingly, I’m currently reading _ **Tammuz and Ishtar** _. Tammuz (which means ‘faithful son’) is the son born of a virgin mother, who dies and is reborn. It is interesting how that story spread and became common in the entire region. Osiris and Isis, Aphrodite, Persephone, etc. The dying of fall and winter and the rebirth in spring. The cycle of life. It basically comes from previous stories and evolves and changes a LOT over the centuries of ancient cultures. Anu, or the heavenly creator god (‘An’ meaning heaven, but not in the modern sense, rather in the astronomical sense, the Universe, or ‘who contains all things’) creates the Earth, or the virgin goddess, who then creates the Son (plants, animals, life). Tammuz, the faithful son, representing life, is born of the flood (the seasonal rains), which give life to the plants and animals, causing trees to bear fruit and grain to grow. Tammuz then dies in the hot desert summer and is lamented in the temples (mentioned in Ezekiel) and is carried into Sheol (which only means ‘grave’, as there is no afterlife). Ishtar the mother goddess descends into Sheol to retrieve him. There is no mention, no story about her return from Sheol, just that she does so and returns with a baby, the new child, the son, who is reborn as vegetation is with the winter rain and spring floods. The story changes a lot over time. Sometimes the mother goddess is mother and consort to the son, sometimes they are two different goddesses (Mother/Consort, Sister/Wife, Mother and Sister/Wife, etc), sometimes returning to being the same. In the Hebrew religion, the mother disappears. We have the creator father and the son he sends to redeem life by descending into Sheol and returning. The story ceases to be about the cycle of life, nature, birth and death and changes to be about saving humans from their own sins and errors. ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/228 "2018-05-27T18:56:39Z")
The ancient Greeks knew the Israelites ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/229 "2018-05-27T18:58:52Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > The ancient Greeks knew the Israelites So what? All of the regional cultures were connected or acquainted with each other. Human cultures don’t exist in a vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/230 "2018-05-28T08:36:42Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > The ancient Greeks knew the Israelites In the Biblical sense? In the Greek Biblical sense? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/231 "2018-05-28T18:38:26Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > In the Biblical sense? In the Greek Biblical sense? You have to ask? Everybody’s always screwing us. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/232 "2018-05-28T22:48:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You have to ask? Everybody’s always screwing us. So it’s Greek style. Lube up! ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/233 "2018-06-03T19:48:23Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > I am new here. But the big news I am bring can be discovered in the first chapter of the Old Testament or Discover Magazine Sep. 2014. For years it baffled humanity how there was possibly water before there was a sun and now it is a scientific fact. Bible grows more accuarte all the time (paths of the sea and Mathew Maury anyone?). Book ‘Scientific Facts in the Bible’ (by Ray Comfort) contains many other scientific statements found in the Bible but the excellent book was written before 2014 so no water/Sun age fact found there. ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/234 "2018-06-03T19:50:32Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Why? > > I don’t understand this line of reasoning. I’m as well-versed as any layman in the Big Bang, and fully accept the science behind physics, cosmology, and any other relevant branch of science dealing with this issue. > > But to simply say that God must exist because the universe exists just doesn’t make any sense to me. I accept that it’s an argument on faith (no proof required). Just don’t try to make it scientific, because it isn’t. Everything material has to be created at some time --even the universe itself. What created the universe? Answer : whatever God exactly is is the universe’s creator. In fact it a point based on pure logic and reasoning and no faith is needed. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/235 "2018-06-03T20:09:18Z")
Um, no. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/236 "2018-06-03T20:09:44Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Book ‘Scientific Facts in the Bible’ (by Ray Comfort) contains many other scientific statements found in the Bible but the excellent book was written before 2014 so no water/Sun age fact found there. Pretty sure if you cite Ray Comfort, you automatically lose the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/237 "2018-06-03T20:09:51Z")
Then logic would have to continue with questioning who created God. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/238 "2018-06-03T21:03:08Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Pretty sure if you cite Ray Comfort, you automatically lose the debate. [Why would you say that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4yBvvGi_2A)? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/239 "2018-06-03T21:53:19Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Everything material has to be created at some time --even the universe itself. What created the universe? Answer : whatever God exactly is is the universe’s creator. In fact it a point based on pure logic and reasoning and no faith is needed. But after the Big Bang there was nothing material, just energy, which later froze into matter. E=mc\*\*2, remember? So your argument fails. But even if some god did it, maybe it is the god of some other planet around some other star in some other galaxy. If your god did it the least he could have done is to get the story right. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/240 "2018-06-03T23:39:15Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Why would you say that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4yBvvGi_2A)? Mmmmmmm…point at the top for ease of entry. I think I’ll sign up. That’s the God for me! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482.md?page=13)