# Water is older than the Sun--agreeing with Genesis Chapter One **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482 "2018-05-02T23:34:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/241 "2018-06-03T23:54:38Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Book ‘Scientific Facts in the Bible’ (by Ray Comfort) contains many other scientific statements found in the Bible but the excellent book was written before 2014 so no water/Sun age fact found there. The words “Ray Comfort” and “excellent book” instantly puts you in the “pay no mind” list. Here’s a thorough [debunking](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scientific_Facts_in_the_Bible:_100_Reasons_to_Believe_the_Bible_is_Supernatural_in_Origin)of your “excellent book” ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/242 "2018-06-04T18:56:06Z")
God’s existence due to the creation of the entire universe is most assured and reassured. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/243 "2018-06-04T19:11:44Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > God’s existence due to the creation of the entire universe is most assured and reassured. Well, that’s great, but _which_ God? Even granting this bit of logic (which is highly suspect to begin with), that doesn’t establish that the one you accept is the one responsible. Note that even the Christians on this board (of whom several have posted in this thread) don’t think much of your logic on this one. ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/244 "2018-06-04T19:24:11Z")
Water is BTW found on other planets. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/245 "2018-06-04T19:31:20Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Water is BTW found on other planets. And in comets. So? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/246 "2018-06-04T19:33:09Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > God’s existence due to the creation of the entire universe is most assured and reassured. But the god who created the universe wants us to sacrifice virgins (male and female, he’s not sexist) to him. Prove me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/247 "2018-06-04T19:53:59Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > God’s existence due to the creation of the entire universe is most assured and reassured. The creation of the universe brought about your god’s existence? How does that work? ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_think_of_a_name)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/248 "2018-06-04T22:34:50Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Yes. Stubborn!!! > It is instantly impossible to come up with another explanation for the material creation of the universe. As a former atheist I was sold on God the second it was pointed out to me about the universe creation proof. A universe could not create itself. God must exist for that reason alone. […] A god could not create itself. God’s god must exist for that reason alone. A god could not create itself. God’s god’s god must exist for that reason alone. A god could not create itself. God’s god’s god’s god must exist for that reason alone. Etc ad infinitum. Your “proof” disproves itself. It makes no sense. It’s not even sophistry because it’s not even superficially plausible. The very existence of anything proves that creation isn’t required for existence because if creation was required for existence it couldn’t have happened because there couldn’t have been anything existing to do the first creating. You’re creating a very flimsy facade of a rationalisation of your belief and passing it off as a proof. It’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/249 "2018-06-05T00:23:01Z")
It’s peculiar that creationists crave science’s confirmation of the Bible - generally confirmation is something that a more reliable source does for a less reliable one (children go to parents for confirmation of what day their birthday is, or how many weeks remain until summer vacation, adults ask their doctors to confirm health information they’ve heard from advertisements, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/250 "2018-06-05T01:37:55Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > God’s existence due to the creation of the entire universe is most assured and reassured. No, this is not ‘most assured.’ You are avoiding the question of how God came into existence. If “he” (gender being silly to ascribe to an omnipotent eternal god) has always been, then why couldn’t the universe have always been? The Big Bang being a localized phenomenon isn’t precluded by current theories. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/251 "2018-06-05T01:43:54Z")
> [@I\_can\_t\_think\_of\_a\_name](#): > > A god could not create itself. God’s god must exist for that reason alone. > > A god could not create itself. God’s god’s god must exist for that reason alone. > > A god could not create itself. God’s god’s god’s god must exist for that reason alone. > > Etc ad infinitum. Ha! It’s gods all the way down!! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/252 "2018-06-05T02:55:47Z")
[A fair amount of water has been around for quite a while](https://www.thelabworldgroup.com/blogs/whats-oldest-known-water-universe). ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/253 "2018-06-05T13:05:46Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Water is BTW found on other planets. Genesis said your God made the earth, sun, moon, and stars, but not any other planets. Therefore some other God made them. Therefore your God must have stolen the other God’s water. That is a point based on pure logic and reasoning. ETA: You know who else is a low-down mangy water-stealer? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/254 "2018-06-05T13:11:37Z")
Paul Atreides? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/255 "2018-06-05T13:15:24Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Paul Atreides? Got it in one. The God Emperor of Dune. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/256 "2018-06-05T13:24:46Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > God’s existence due to the creation of the entire universe is most assured and reassured. What does god need with a universe? If god wants adoring sycophants, wouldn’t building one populated planet suffice? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/257 "2018-06-05T19:03:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What does god need with a universe? If god wants adoring sycophants, wouldn’t building one populated planet suffice? That was the traditional Christian view. One populated planet, some other worlds, then stars stuck on the wall surrounding the universe, with God around there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/258 "2018-06-05T20:08:21Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Got it in one. The God Emperor of Dune. Strictly speaking, Leto II was the GE of D, not Paul. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/259 "2018-06-06T00:02:35Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > That was the traditional Christian view. One populated planet, some other worlds, then stars stuck on the wall surrounding the universe, with God around there somewhere. The OP strikes me as one of these Christian traditionalists. So I’m wondering if he’ll offer an explanation about why his God has gone to the trouble to create the known universe at all. Particularly a universe that appears to be downright inhospitable to the very same beings he is said to love some much as to have created them in his own image. ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/260 "2018-06-12T17:19:44Z")
A very good book is “Archaeology of the Bible” by Jean-Pierre Isbouts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482.md?page=14)