# Water is older than the Sun--agreeing with Genesis Chapter One **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482 "2018-05-02T23:34:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/21 "2018-05-03T00:22:50Z")
The Bible tells of a lot of things being created. Unless Genesis had somehow gotten all of them in the exact opposite order (which, itself, would be a pretty impressive feat), you’re always going to be able to find some pair of things for which it got the order right. But since you seem to think it’s relevant that the Bible got the order right in one case, let me ask you something: Which was created first, humans, or other animals? ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/22 "2018-05-03T00:23:47Z")
And of course, the biblical creation story, out of the thousands of creation stories, must be the correct one. > [@ned12](#): > > A universe cannot create itself out of literally nothing. There has to be a creator outside of science was we understand it. ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/23 "2018-05-03T00:24:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How did the creator get created? I will seriously state it outside of our science as we understand it to tell whatever created the creator. Point is–all our science (as we understand it) leads ultimately back to a creator of this universe. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/24 "2018-05-03T00:25:07Z")
Things from the Old Testament that have been scientifically shown to be inaccurate: [ul] [li]Earth and the rest of the Universe being the same age.[/li][li]The cycle of day and night somehow existing before the Sun existed.[/li][li]Land plants existing before ocean life.[/li][li]Land plants existing before the Sun existed.[/li][li]The Sun and “the stars” coming into existence after Earth came into existence; and the Sun coming into existence at the same time as all other stars did.[/li][li]Birds coming into existence before life on land did.[/li][/ul] And that’s just from the first chapter of the first book of the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/25 "2018-05-03T00:26:16Z")
There is a video at youtube made by [vaticancatholic.com](http://vaticancatholic.com). It is called “Amazing evidence for God-Scientific Evidence for God” and it shows how human life is so complex it must have a creator. Check the amazing and true video out. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/26 "2018-05-03T00:27:36Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > There is a video at youtube made by [vaticancatholic.com](http://vaticancatholic.com). It is called “Amazing evidence for God-Scientific Evidence for God” and it shows how human life is so complex it must have a creator. Check the amazing and true video out. It’s a stupid argument that’s been made and debunked before. ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/27 "2018-05-03T00:30:01Z")
For all practical purposes Earth and the universe are very likely the same age. But the Earth became more habitable over time. It is unknown what exactly what is meant by a day in Genesis Chap. One. 24 solar days. Long eras of time. It could even be that the creation was visually revealed to Genesis writer in 6 days. More later. ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/28 "2018-05-03T00:31:02Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > It’s a stupid argument that’s been made and debunked before. Excuse me. I really do not think you saw the video before. And you commented one minute after I mentioned it and the video is 28 minutes long so you could not have just watched it all for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/29 "2018-05-03T00:32:10Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > There is a video at youtube made by [vaticancatholic.com](http://vaticancatholic.com). It is called “Amazing evidence for God-Scientific Evidence for God” and it shows how human life is so complex it must have a creator. Check the amazing and true video out. Check [this](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors)out. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/30 "2018-05-03T00:35:08Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > I will seriously state it outside of our science as we understand it to tell whatever created the creator. Point is–all our science (as we understand it) leads ultimately back to a creator of this universe. False. If you really want to continue this line of argument (and seriously, we’ve had far deeper discussions than this here), Google “special pleading,” and don’t continue until you have a valid argument for why your argument isn’t exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/31 "2018-05-03T00:37:01Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > For all practical purposes Earth and the universe are very likely the same age. Sigh, also false. The universe predates the Earth by billions of years. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/32 "2018-05-03T00:37:33Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Excuse me. I really do not think you saw the video before. And you commented one minute after I mentioned it and the video is 28 minutes long so you could not have just watched it all for the first time. There is no way there is anything in said video that already hasn’t been brought up millions of times and been debunked millions of times. Also, for those of us who don’t have the ability to watch and/or give a shit about a 28 min video, please give us the bullet points that are so new and true and undebunked. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/33 "2018-05-03T00:38:34Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > For all practical purposes Earth and the universe are very likely the same age. … Well, no. The math simply says that’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/34 "2018-05-03T00:40:36Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > For all practical purposes Earth and the universe are very likely the same age. No they aren’t. You’re trumpeting the findings of science when they confirm your holy book (or at least appear to confirm your holy book, if you squint at things just the right way), then blithely ignoring or flatly denying the findings of science when they contradict your holy book. Let’s see, I’m an atheist. A skeptic who rejects the claims of religion. What does the Bible have to say about that? “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” [1 John 4:1](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20John+4:1&version=NIV) Well, there you go! The Bible itself says I should be an atheist! (So far, none of the spirits have been from God. In fact, so far there haven’t been any spirits at all. And all the prophets have been false.) ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/35 "2018-05-03T00:40:57Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > For all practical purposes Earth and the universe are very likely the same age. No; the Universe is 13.7 billion years old, and the Earth is only 4.5 billion years old. Water probably started forming when the universe was a few million years old, maybe less. So at least some of the water on Earth has been around a lot longer than Earth. Note, however, this water existed in interstellar space in the form of ice particles - often quite dusty ice. No interstellar oceans or anything of that sort. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/36 "2018-05-03T00:43:41Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > For all practical purposes Earth and the universe are very likely the same age. But the Earth became more habitable over time. It is unknown what exactly what is meant by a day in Genesis Chap. One. 24 solar days. Long eras of time. It could even be that the creation was visually revealed to Genesis writer in 6 days. More later. Science tells us that the universe is vastly older than both the earth and the sun. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/37 "2018-05-03T00:46:46Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > I am new here. But the big news I am bring can be discovered in the first chapter of the Old Testament or Discover Magazine Sep. 2014. For years it baffled humanity how there was possibly water before there was a sun and now it is a scientific fact. Bible grows more accuarte all the time (paths of the sea and Mathew Maury anyone?). First, doesn’t it also prove that the [Egyptian myth of creation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_creation_myths) and the [Cherokee creation myths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_mythology#Creation_beliefs) and countless other creation myths in which water predates the sun are growing more accuarte all the time? Second, doesn’t the Bible say that water predates the sun by a few dozen hours? That doesn’t sound scientifically accuarte to me. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/38 "2018-05-03T00:48:16Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > There is a video at youtube made by [vaticancatholic.com](http://vaticancatholic.com). It is called “Amazing evidence for God-Scientific Evidence for God” and it shows how human life is so complex it must have a creator. Check the amazing and true video out. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > There is no way there is anything in said video that already hasn’t been brought up millions of times and been debunked millions of times. Also, for those of us who don’t have the ability to watch and/or give a shit about a 28 min video, please give us the bullet points that are so new and true and undebunked. Does someone want to take one for the team and watch that and give us the bullet points? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/39 "2018-05-03T00:48:35Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > There is a video at youtube made by [vaticancatholic.com](http://vaticancatholic.com). It is called “Amazing evidence for God-Scientific Evidence for God” and it shows how human life is so complex it must have a creator. Check the amazing and true video out. If one is going to throw religious quotations into this discussion, one should generally be accurate about the sources. [www.vaticancatholic.com](http://www.vaticancatholic.com) points to the Most Holy Family Monastery, a group of [sedevacantists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism) who got mad at the church after the Second Vatican Council and broke away in a schism. One may quote them if one chooses, but they are not honest in including either “vatican” or “catholic” in their name and it is not accurate to use their site to imply that their anti-science essays have anything to do with the Vatican or the Catholic Church. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/40 "2018-05-03T01:12:16Z")
Science gives, but then it takes it back with interest. 🙂 Genesis 1: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.” Sorry, but it explains that the earth was created first, and at the same time as the waters, all mixed with the land. Separation came later and completed on the “Third day” The problem then is like others noticed, “Everything in the solar system came from somewhere else before the sun ignited.” And that includes the sun itself. > **[Origins of our solar system revealed](https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/08/08/4062910.htm)** > > The cloud that formed our solar system brewed for 30 million years before the birth of the Sun, a new study has found. Notice that the evidence points to other stars exploding to allow the sun and the earth to form, meaning that that bit about the stars being made _ **on the fourth day** _ has not made the bible more accurate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482.md?page=3)