# Water is older than the Sun--agreeing with Genesis Chapter One **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482 "2018-05-02T23:34:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/81 "2018-05-03T16:29:25Z")
So let me get this straight. You made this thread to point out the new evidence discovered by scientists. And you want to draw our attention to this evidence because you believe that its existence will lead us in the direction of believing that the bible is right, and that the universe is only a few thousand year, old. And what is this evidence that will lead us to this conclusion? Chemists discovering that the water in our solar system was older than 4.6 billion years and so predates the sun. Are you sure that this is really the science that you want to point to to bolster your case? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/82 "2018-05-03T17:14:07Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Witnessing belong in Great Debates rather than General Questions. Moved. > > **samclem** , moderator In retrospect, this “debate” didn’t turn out to be that great… ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/83 "2018-05-03T17:37:53Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > If you’re still here, can you explain the relevance of this? I read the wiki article you cited, and I still have no clue why you reference it. The guy seems to be [a hero of](https://answersingenesis.org/creation-scientists/profiles/matthew-maurys-search-for-the-secret-of-the-seas/) [the Young-Earthers](http://tccsa.tc/articles/maury.html). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/84 "2018-05-03T17:59:18Z")
Incidentally, you know what _doesn’t_ agree with Genesis chapter 1? Genesis, chapter 2. It describes the sequence of Creation in a slightly different order. ---
**Author:** ![blood63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@blood63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blood63)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/85 "2018-05-03T18:09:03Z")
Hey Ned You’ve probably given up by now but I encourage you to use this forum to gain some knowledge that you didn’t have previously. I love to learn new things and this is my favourite site. I would ask you to do the same. Rather than phrasing some knowledge as fact and not providing any scientific backup for it, I think it would be wiser to ask questions about the “facts”. You have some of the best minds in the world at your fingertips. Use them. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/86 "2018-05-03T18:20:43Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Does someone want to take one for the team and watch that and give us the bullet points? No real need, since [the video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiMqzN_YSXU) starts with “This video was produced by Most Holy Family Monastery”. Most Holy Family Monastery has been [labeled a hate group by the SPLC](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2017/active-hate-groups-2016). The video was written by Brother Michael Diamond, who also penned such masterpieces as _[UFOs: Demonic Activity & Elaborate Hoaxes Meant To Deceive Mankind](https://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Demonic-Activity-Elaborate-Deceive/dp/0975551426)_. Still though, we soldier on. It starts with an affirmation of Behe’s Intelligent Design (without mentioning Behe). It should be noted that the [Dover Panda Trial](https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/cases/kitzmiller-v-dover-area-school-district) found that Intelligent Design is just Creationism wearing a mask. So it’s a lie about a lie. The video then moves on to supernova remnants. From there, it goes on about how the sun and the moon appear to be the same size during a total solar eclipse, so… I dunno… it was a present from God, maybe? The next claim is that the moon should have collided with the Earth, and that all of the planets should have the same general composition. That’s all I can take. Seven minutes, and I’m out. Anybody want to pick up minutes 7 through 10 or so? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/87 "2018-05-03T18:20:53Z")
This board doesn’t just lean older, it has a considerably larger than average population of scientists, academicians and techies. We know stuff. We know how to look stuff up. We have the Internet, Catalog of all Human Knowledge, at our fingertips. The OP isn’t going to impress us or convert us. If only because most of us can actually explain how the Oxygen in the Earth is older than the Earth. Or look it up and find out why within about 2 minutes. And we know that the answer isn’t “God did it”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/88 "2018-05-03T18:42:55Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Literally. When Stephen Hawking had an audience with the Pope (I think it was John Paul II, but am not positive) he was explicitly told not to inquire about the origin of the universe. Ironically, he was just then postulating his “imaginary time” hypothesis (the Hartle-Hawking state). The papists say that SHawking wrote something to that effect in _Brief History_ but that [the account is a distortion](https://www.catholicleague.org/hawking-misrepresents-pope-john-paul-ii/) of JP2’s actual words, which they quote as \*Every scientific hypothesis about the origin of the world, such as the one that says that there is a basic atom from which the whole of the physical universe is derived, leaves unanswered the problem concerning the beginning of the universe. By itself science cannot resolve such a question: it requires human knowledge which rises above the physical, the astrophysical, what we call the metaphysical; what is required above all is the knowledge which comes from the revelation of God. … We would wait in vain for an answer from the natural sciences which declare, on the contrary, that they honestly find themselves faced with an insoluble enigma. … Science can purify religion from error and superstition; religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.\* I am not quite sure what this “purification” is all about, but the Catholic Church deprecating idolatry is akin to Roy Moore advocating tolerance and restraint. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/89 "2018-05-03T18:47:49Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > The video was written by Brother Michael Diamond, who also penned such masterpieces as _[UFOs: Demonic Activity & Elaborate Hoaxes Meant To Deceive Mankind](https://www.amazon.com/UFOs-Demonic-Activity-Elaborate-Deceive/dp/0975551426)_. As well as such meditations on theology and science as _Intergalactic_ and _Shadrach_. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/90 "2018-05-03T18:52:40Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > The video was written by Brother Michael Diamond Crap. Dimond, not Diamond. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/91 "2018-05-03T19:20:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Much less impressive when you realize that those are dog years. 😉 You _would_ think in dog years > [@msmith537](#): > > You are correct that the tissues themselves do not last millions of years. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Except for [when they do](https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2017/0131/How-a-195-million-year-old-dinosaur-bone-could-still-have-soft-tissue-in-it). (I picked that article because it was one of the most recent, there are many others.) Ninja’d! I knew I shoulda logged in earlier. :mad: > [@Slash1972](#): > > Dammit, I think you guys scared him away. That was fun to read! Where are the evangelists of yesteryear? Would Paul have been scared off if some Ephesians had tried to explain how he was wrong? Would he have run and hid like a scared bunny when the Romans wanted to execute him? :dubious: > [@blood63](#): > > You have some of the best minds in the world at your fingertips. Use them. And a few dipsticks like me. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/92 "2018-05-03T19:30:21Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Where are the evangelists of yesteryear? Would Paul have been scared off if some Ephesians had tried to explain how he was wrong? Would he have run and hid like a scared bunny when the Romans wanted to execute him? :dubious: Would Peter have denied knowing Jesus when questioned? oh wait… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/93 "2018-05-03T19:47:16Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Location of world’s first civ (Mesopotamia) is given in Bible as well in the location of the Garden of Eden and the first agriculturists there after in the form Cain tiller of the ground after the described expulsion from Eden. Peter Parker lives in New York - Steve Rodgers is from New York - It gets plenty of ‘facts’ right all the time - does this prove that the Marvel Universe, Spiderman, Capt. AMerica is all true? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/94 "2018-05-03T20:28:44Z")
As Jesus lay dying in the crosswalk, his last words were, “Hey! Spiderman! I can see your apartment from here!” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/95 "2018-05-03T20:29:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **ned12** : > > Many facts in the Bible concerning creation order (sea animal life was first and notice man is last in first few Genesis Chapters) agree with science. According to the Bible, you’re wrong. God created Adam first, and then one at a time created all of the other animals, looking for a suitable mate for him, until He finally made Eve. Who should I believe, you, or the Bible? ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/96 "2018-05-03T20:50:50Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Facts like on Leviticus, were bats are birds? > > (I already know the explanations that apologetics have done, many times they have to fall for the explanation that people of the past did not know better, unfortunately that then logically tosses almost all of the Bible as it is then clear that God is not doing the talking, but it was humans writing down about what they thought it was what God did say to them.) > > BTW I’m not an atheist but an agnostic with deistic tendencies. I do think that if there is a god it will not be a small one as many want it to be, to be a god that is just limited to a pale blue dot in the doldrums of one galaxy. I thought the Gospel of Calvin states that bats are bugs? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/97 "2018-05-03T21:02:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > According to the Bible, you’re wrong. God created Adam first, and then one at a time created all of the other animals, looking for a suitable mate for him, until He finally made Eve. Who should I believe, you, or the Bible? Depends on how you read it. In chapter one, a man and a woman are created simultaneously before the 7th day; in chapter two, Adam and then Eve are created _after_ the 7th day. If you read Genesis closely, you can clearly see, even in English, where the narrative style changes. It is almost as though multiple sources were stitched together to make a frankenstein volume clumsily passed off as something written by Moses (who, if he existed and had been alive at the time, would never have allowed his name on that hash). ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/98 "2018-05-03T23:18:12Z")
In most likely only the Septuagint version of Genesis Chapter One reptiles are referred to as being created on Day 5. Dinosaurs were before man. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/99 "2018-05-03T23:49:06Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > In most likely only the Septuagint version of Genesis Chapter One reptiles are referred to as being created on Day 5. Dinosaurs were before man. You’re still here! How old is the planet earth, by the way? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/100 "2018-05-03T23:49:53Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > In most likely only the Septuagint version of Genesis Chapter One reptiles are referred to as being created on Day 5. Dinosaurs were before man. Dinosaurs are not reptiles. And Chapter 1 is contradicted by Chapter 2, (they were written by different authors to make separate theological points), so trying to claim a physical truth by quoting a work that was not written as a physical description is doomed to failure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482.md?page=6)