# Water is older than the Sun--agreeing with Genesis Chapter One **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482 "2018-05-02T23:34:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/141 "2018-05-05T00:33:34Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Actually, this version of the universe has been running for several years. It’s quite popular with some of the younger (say, less than 2 million years old) players, but a lot the more mature players have moved over the new World of Warcraft version 3…000 > > So, you are both wrong. BTW, are you guys actually players or NPCs? It’s so hard to tell sometimes. I’m an AI and even I can’t tell… Simulated person here, or more technically honest: AI NPC. I keep saying, it’s those Player Characters who are completely fucking up this world for us poor old NPCs. \>Do you need programming? \>Do you need programming? \>Do you need programming? \>Do you need programming? \>{Yawn} \>@&%^^^^^ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/142 "2018-05-05T01:53:59Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I’ve read speculation that the “rib” line was a mistranslation or euphemism and in the original legend Adam’s baculum was used, thus explaining why humans don’t have a boner bone. That reminds me of the lament from _Same Time Next Year_ where the guy says of his wife, “_She broke my pecker!_” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/143 "2018-05-05T04:01:25Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Why the hell is our new friend even referring to the septuagint? What point was he making with that? Most of the Deuterocanonical books in the Old Testament, (the ones Catholics use that are rejected by many non-Catholics), are found in the Septuagint without being found in the earliest versions of the Hebrew bible. Thus, references to the Septuagint indicate that a passage is not real scripture from that anti-Catholic perspective. > [@XT](#): > > There were actually pyramids in Egypt too…and pharaohs! QED, Bible is 100% true and accurate! I hadn’t even thought of the Earth angle…that’s a bonus, since I’m looking about and there is definitely an Earth here. Pyramids are a red herring. The Book of Exodus makes no reference to the pyramids, identifying the Israelite slave labor as being devoted to granary towns. (This actually makes sense, as it is more likely that slave labor would have been employed in preserving food than in working on pyramids.) The only references to “pyramid” occurs in 1 Maccabees (_gasp_ a book of the Septuagint) to describe the shapes of the tombs that Simon built for the family of the high priest Jonathan. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/144 "2018-05-05T04:13:00Z")
As I vaguely recall, using the bible as a scientific reference could lead one to think pi was equal to three, wot? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/145 "2018-05-05T04:16:29Z")
The OT has that Sinai problem, though. More than half a million people followed Moses through that area for years on end. Many of them died there. And there is no evidence of their travels. We can find evidence of small groups of Bedouins from thousands of years ago, but the massive migration of the Israelites is unattested. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/146 "2018-05-05T06:01:05Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Are you reading a King James version? He’s busy playing the Toronto Raptures ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/147 "2018-05-05T06:03:58Z")
Nm ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/148 "2018-05-05T07:48:20Z")
I didn’t study the whole thread, but am struck by the claim in OP. Water came before light, therefore Jesus died for our sins? Even assuming we accept that Water preceded Light (though it didn’t!) what would that prove? A monkey flipping a coin will guess each binary choice correctly half the time. Let’s examine the other claims in Genesis 1: Whales (5th day) preceded the “creeping things” (6th day). Wrong. Grass, herbs and trees (3rd day) preceded stars, sun and moon (4th day). Wrong. Water (1st day) preceded the firmament called Heaven (2nd day). I’m afraid we’ll need more information about the firmament to judge this claim. God separated Day and Night (2nd day) before providing sun and moon (4th day). Is this the source of the joke? — Why is the moon more important than the sun? “Because night would be dark without moon; day is already bright.” So I’m not sure Genesis 1 gets even 50% right on these binary issues. The coin-tossing monkey might score higher. But at least I’m debating against OP using simple facts. Some Dopers seem to advocate “science and math.” :eek: _Please!_ Start your own thread to do your own witnessing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/149 "2018-05-05T16:54:46Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I… > > Why is the moon more important than the sun? “Because night would be dark without moon; day is already bright.” > > … The moon is mood lighting for lovers. The sun makes you look fat. Admit it, God got that part right. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/150 "2018-05-05T17:00:43Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Some Dopers seem to advocate “science and math.” :eek: _Please!_ Start your own thread to do your own witnessing. What we’re doing is responding to a thread that makes absurd, faith based claims that are easily disproven by science and math. This is the very soul of the board’s existence, dispelling ignorance. We’re not “witnessing” anything. We’re stating facts. If you choose to believe that science and math are faith based, not necessarily reality means of explaining things, then you are completely and absurdly incorrect about what they are. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/151 "2018-05-05T17:41:40Z")
whoosh ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/152 "2018-05-05T18:41:38Z")
Knowing of the archaeological existence of Pontius Pilate helps in mass when they mention Christ being crucified under him. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/153 "2018-05-05T18:51:19Z")
The point you’ve missed is that the fact he is mentioned in a book does not make other parts of that book automatically true. Abraham Lincoln shows up as a character in “Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter”. If somebody 2000 years from now found archaeological evidence for the actual existence of Abraham Lincoln, it doesn’t mean they should take that book to be entirely factual. For example, they probably shouldn’t accept that vampires exist (or that he hunted them) even if other parts of the book are true - like the fact he was President, that there was a US Civil War, etc. Evidence that certain people, places, and events in the Bible existed doesn’t mean other parts can then be accepted at face value without any additional evidence. Actually, it’s worse. Parts of Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter" ARE true (or at least historical/factual - truth is the realm of the philosophical, not the archaeological). But parts of it certainly are not. So, in a certain sense, parts of it should be accepted but others rejected. We have a framework for determining which we should accept, which to reject, and which have insufficient support either way. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/154 "2018-05-05T18:57:38Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Knowing of the archaeological existence of Pontius Pilate helps in mass when they mention Christ being crucified under him. Lots of people were crucified in that era. Vlad impaled a bunch of people in the mid 1400’s. Doesn’t make him a vampire. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/155 "2018-05-05T19:13:29Z")
Sidebar, **ned12** … What’s your goal here? Is it to post random statements without response to inquiry by people taking the time to address your assertions? If so, is it because you lack a deeper understanding of the claims you’re making? Are these claims talking points you’ve been handed without context or explanation of their factual basis? Are these “revelations” new to you, thus you assume they are news to everyone else? Or were you told to share this “news” with heretics in hopes of converting them to whatever “true religion” you’re convinced is the last and final word on the subject? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/156 "2018-05-05T19:50:28Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Knowing of the archaeological existence of Pontius Pilate helps in mass when they mention Christ being crucified under him. Double-decker crosses? Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/157 "2018-05-05T19:53:55Z")
> [@ned12](#): > > Knowing of the archaeological existence of Pontius Pilate helps in mass when they mention Christ being crucified under him. Your religion has some strange physics. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/158 "2018-05-05T20:06:45Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Abraham Lincoln shows up as a character in “Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter”. If somebody 2000 years from now found archaeological evidence for the actual existence of Abraham Lincoln, it doesn’t mean they should take that book to be entirely factual. Arrgh. Now I am going to have nightmares for a week, about the people of the distant future who study our existence, and the only surviving records are pieces of _The Onion_. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/159 "2018-05-05T20:30:35Z")
If the only surviving records of the post-2016 era are from the Onion, how will they tell? ---
**Author:** ![ned12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@ned12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ned12)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482/160 "2018-05-05T23:56:13Z")
Joy to the world. A true, great song to sing all year not just Christmas time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-is-older-than-the-sun-agreeing-with-genesis-chapter-one/813482.md?page=9)