# Water PHOTOGRAPHED on Mars. Newslink **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 20, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222 "2009-03-20T22:43:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/1 "2009-03-20T22:43:38Z")
We’ve finally **seen it** , beyond Earth. > **[Liquid Saltwater Is Likely Present On Mars, New Analysis Shows](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090319232438.htm)** > > Salty, liquid water has been detected on a leg of the Mars Phoenix Lander and therefore could be present at other locations on the planet, according to analysis by a group of mission scientists. This is the first time liquid water has been detected... > [@](#): > > ScienceDaily (Mar. 20, 2009) — Salty, liquid water has been detected on a leg of the Mars Phoenix Lander and therefore could be present at other locations on the planet, according to analysis by a group of mission scientists led by a University of Michigan professor. This is the first time liquid water has been detected and photographed outside the Earth. > > “A large number of independent physical and thermodynamical evidence shows that saline water may actually be common on Mars,” said Nilton Renno, a professor in the U-M Department of Atmospheric, Oceanic and Space Sciences and a co-investigator on the Phoenix mission. “Common” the man said. This changes the picture, radically. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/2 "2009-03-20T23:09:06Z")
Can they test it for life? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/3 "2009-03-20T23:10:34Z")
Seeing Mars photos makes me want to take a holiday in the desert. It’s beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/4 "2009-03-20T23:13:51Z")
Awww… they got its bad side. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/5 "2009-03-20T23:13:53Z")
Neat. Now we know with near-certainty that the bacterial spores carried from Earth by our spacecraft have a suitable environment to survive in, and are now vigorously annihilating the fragile native Martian subsurface ecosystem. Am I nuts, or wasn’t the whole point of the Phoenix lander to test for water? I was under the impression that they had millions of dollars worth of water-sensing technology on board. And they wind up discovering liquid water… by photographing it on the spaceship’s leg?! So in hindsight, they could have just ditched all the chemical analysis equipment, and just sent a lander consisting of a camera, and a leg. I just hope it doesn’t turn out that the stuff somehow leaked out of the lander itself. “Recent analysis reveals that the Martian liquid shares many chemical properties with NASA-brand Landing Leg Oil[sup]TM[/sup]. Scientists now hypothesize an ancient Martian fauna consisting of huge rusty-kneed tripods…” ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/6 "2009-03-21T12:28:45Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > So in hindsight, they could have just ditched all the chemical analysis equipment, and just sent a lander consisting of a camera, and a leg. Yeah, but it would be hard to take photos while hopping around. I think they’d have to spring for at least two legs. ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/51bf81/32.png) [@Big\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Blue)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/7 "2009-03-21T18:05:38Z")
Maybe a tripod for said camera, that would be three legs. Perhaps one extra to photograph, so four. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/8 "2009-03-21T19:40:46Z")
> [@Big\_Blue](#): > > Maybe a tripod for said camera, that would be three legs. > Perhaps one extra to photograph, so four. No, stick with three. I like to idea of sending tripods _to_ Mars. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/9 "2009-03-21T20:24:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, stick with three. I like to idea of sending tripods _to_ Mars. Yeah. So that the Martians can send them back to us equipped with heat rays. Way to go :rolleyes:😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/10 "2009-03-21T21:07:23Z")
> [@detop](#): > > Yeah. So that the Martians can send them back to us equipped with heat rays. Way to go :rolleyes:😃 The way to prevent this, is to equip them with 1920s Style Death Rays _before_ you send em to Mars. ---
**Author:** ![Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/13edae/32.png) [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interconnected_Series_of_Tubes)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/11 "2009-03-21T21:51:32Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Neat. Now we know with near-certainty that the bacterial spores carried from Earth by our spacecraft have a suitable environment to survive in, and are now vigorously annihilating the fragile native Martian subsurface ecosystem. I was under the impression that the Mars landers are all sterilized prior to launch to prevent this very occurrence - combined with the somewhat inhospitable environment of interplanetary space (yes, I know the spores are enormously hardy, just the same.) Any details on these large numbers of physical and thermodynamical suggestions that liquid water is common? Getting over the temperature and ambient pressure alone seems to make surface-level liquid water unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/12 "2009-03-21T22:29:13Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Neat. Now we know with near-certainty that the bacterial spores carried from Earth by our spacecraft have a suitable environment to survive in, and are now vigorously annihilating the fragile native Martian subsurface ecosystem. Even if Earth life can survive there we don’t know if it can thrive. Nor do we know if any bacteria that could function like that would have been exposed to the lander, survived decontamination, and launch. If Mars does turn out to be barren though it opens up another interesting debate. Should we seed life? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/13 "2009-03-21T23:45:31Z")
> [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](#): > > I was under the impression that the Mars landers are all sterilized prior to launch to prevent this very occurrence - combined with the somewhat inhospitable environment of interplanetary space (yes, I know the spores are enormously hardy, just the same.) > [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Even if Earth life can survive there we don’t know if it can thrive. Nor do we know if any bacteria that could function like that would have been exposed to the lander, survived decontamination, and launch. Well, color me skeptical. Because this discovery appears to suggest that the scientists in charge aren’t even sure of their ability to predict the behavior of WATER. “You see, the soil scoop and spectrographic analyzer are necessary, because the thin atmosphere of Mars means that liquid water simply cannot exist on the surface-- oh, wait; there’s a picture of some over there. Never mind.” One would think that, of all the chemicals that might exist on Mars, science would at least have a handle on what to expect from water. But apparently not. And water doesn’t even evolve (at least if you disregard Rupert Sheldrake, which is almost always wise). Science has understood the basic principles of bacterial sterilization for about 150 years. On the other hand, bacteria have been working on their ability to survive in hostile environments for roughly 4 billion years. We’ve recently discovered bacteria thriving in places that we wouldn’t have thought possible back when we first started crashing things into Mars four decades ago. If I had to bet on whether a live bacterium could be found on a NASA-sterilized spacecraft, my money’s on the bacteria. It’s anyone’s guess whether the Soviets had more effective antibacterial technologies, but I’m guessing not. There were probably sneeze marks all over those Mars probes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/14 "2009-03-22T01:48:31Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Even if Earth life can survive there we don’t know if it can thrive. Nor do we know if any bacteria that could function like that would have been exposed to the lander, survived decontamination, and launch. > > If Mars does turn out to be barren though it opens up another interesting debate. Should we seed life? Why not? What’s the worst that could happen? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/15 "2009-03-22T05:00:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, stick with three. I like to idea of sending tripods _to_ Mars. Well played! ---
**Author:** ![exastris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b38774/32.png) [@exastris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/exastris)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/16 "2009-03-22T08:11:17Z")
It’s important to note that LOTS of people (including Phoenix mission scientists) disagree with the conclusion that the images show liquid water. (I don’t believe the paper has even gone through review yet.) This is very, very far from an accepted fact. A bit of discussion (non-scientific) can be found [here](http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20090310/sc_space/phoenixmarslanderfoundliquidwatersomescientiststhink). Research will be presented at the major planetary science conference next week- no doubt there will be a lot of discussion. Personally, I don’t think the images show liquid water. Frost, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/17 "2009-03-22T09:38:10Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > I just hope it doesn’t turn out that the stuff somehow leaked out of the lander itself. That was my first thought. If there are any experts present, could you opine on whether rocket fuel exhaust could leave liquid residue in Mars’ atmosphere? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/18 "2009-03-22T09:47:35Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > That was my first thought. > > If there are any experts present, could you opine on whether rocket fuel exhaust could leave liquid residue in Mars’ atmosphere? Nix on this. The Lander came down more than a year ago, didn’t it? And wind speeds on Mars are often far more than 100 mph? Long gone, if it was there. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/19 "2009-03-22T12:08:24Z")
NASA SCIENTIST AT PODIUM: --And, as this streaming footage from the Phoenix lander illustrates, the seals on all the fuel tanks remain perfectly intact, despite 100-MPH winds. Of course, it is important to remember that liquid rocket fuel simply cannot exist in Mars’ thin atmosphere– (ON SCREEN, A FUEL TANK HATCH SUDDENLY POPS OPEN, AND HUNDREDS OF GALLONS OF LIQUID ROCKET FUEL SPLASH OUT ALL OVER THE LANDER, SETTLING INTO LARGE POOLS DESPITE THE THIN ATMOSPHERE AND 100-MPH WINDS.) NASA SCIENTIST AT PODIUM: …Er… Yes… and as… as we can see here, the… um. Well. Ahem… Now, if I may call your attention to another interesting detail… (SCIENTIST REACHES SLOWLY INTO COAT POCKET, THEN SUDDENLY HURLS A SMOKE BOMB TO THE GROUND, DUCKS OUT AUDITORIUM DOORS, ACTIVATES ROCKET PACK HIDDEN BENEATH COAT, AND VANISHES INTO THE SKY.) (ON SCREEN, HUNDREDS OF PLAGUE-BEARING NORWAY RATS TUMBLE OUT OF THE LANDER FUEL TANK, AND SCAMPER MADLY ACROSS THE MARTIAN DESERT) (LANDER TIPS OVER AND BURSTS INTO FLAME) ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222/20 "2009-03-22T16:17:22Z")
I choked on my coffee reading that story. Why do I have a feeling the first manned mission to mars will reveal somehow German cockroaches or something have beaten us there, and nobody thought to bring a can of raid? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-photographed-on-mars-newslink/490222.md?page=2)