# Water restriction fine. How should I prepare for court? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 14, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526 "2022-09-14T00:31:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/41 "2022-09-14T23:51:01Z")
Ah, I used up all my brain cells trying to remember Horshack’s first name. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/42 "2022-09-15T02:27:25Z")
In my experience, they’re generally not all raring to make you pay a fine. Nearly every time I’ve been fined for something, they’ve been pretty amenable to just getting it fixed with proof in some time period, and they’ll waive the fine, dismiss the ticket, and just charge you some court fee that’s like $20-$50. What’s weird about this is that the code compliance people in my city almost universally warn you about stuff like that before they wield the fine-hammer. I’ve got a warning before for watering on the wrong days (before I realized we had designated days), and all I had to do is NOT do it again. No court, no process, etc… Just a warning and I assume a recheck at some point to verify. If they did warn you and you ignored it because you didn’t think it applied to you, that would make it quite a bit harder to weasel out of the fine I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/43 "2022-09-15T03:00:07Z")
It appears to be a hearing, not a criminal trial. He said "citation, This is a good idea. It is indeed hearsay, but in traffic court I have had judges accept receipts, letters and what not. In a criminal court i am sure our legal experts are right, but I dunno if we know the rules here. I suspect there wont even be a real judge. > [@Procrustus](#): > > It’s hearsay opinion _of an expert_. But still hearsay. But as I mentioned, in courts like this the evidence rules are relaxed generally. Yes. IANAL. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/44 "2022-09-15T03:26:14Z")
Arnold? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/45 "2022-09-15T11:29:16Z")
> [@bump](#): > > they’ll waive the fine, dismiss the ticket, and just charge you some court fee I once got pulled over and ticketed for a tail light being out. The state police cop explained that I should fix the problem and enter a not guilty plea, which I did. When I arrived at the magistrate’s court things were crazy. There was a news crew and a crowd. After everything settled down, I was called in. The magistrate was obviously in a foul mood. He read aloud from the motor vehicle code about exemptions for the Amish, etc. He asked if I was Amish, then found me guilty. The cop was embarrassed. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/46 "2022-09-15T17:18:27Z")
[off topic] Epstein’s first name is Juan, and it was he who had excuses signed “Epstein’s mother”. and it is indeed Arnold Horshack > **[Welcome Back, Kotter (TV Series 1975–1979) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072582/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0)** > > Welcome Back, Kotter: Created by Gabe Kaplan, Alan Sacks, Peter Meyerson. With Gabe Kaplan, Marcia Strassman, John Sylvester White, Robert Hegyes. A compassionate teacher returns to his inner city high school of his youth to teach a new generation of... [/off topic] Brian ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/47 "2022-09-15T17:25:43Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Once I got a ticket when I made a left turn at a non-busy intersection around 5:15pm, and posted on a diagonal pole was a sign saying “no left turn between 5-7pm” where you didn’t notice it until you were already into the turn. A cop was posted right there and gave me a ticket. I thought it was an unfair setup, so I decided to try to fight it in court. I showed up clean-cut in my nicest suit. I knew I was in trouble when the judge was yelling “WHAT? WHAT I CAN’T UNDERSTAND YOU! SPEAK UP!!” very rudely to the first defendant, who was using a voice box to speak. It was my turn next, and I very politely stated my case. The judge said “I don’t know what you expect me to do, Mr. solost. The sign was posted according to state law. Just be glad it was a sign you missed, and not A KID YOU HIT!!” I was pissed at that, but kept my mouth shut and paid the fine. I probably would have done the same, but “in the spirit of the staircase”: “You are absolutely right Your Honor in bringing up that this might have been much worse and a child might have been injured. How do I get a transcript of your statement so I can agitate to have this sign moved to a more visible location? I think your statement will be enough to push someone into action.” ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/48 "2022-09-15T17:29:17Z")
> [@Bonum\_Legatum](#): > > I probably would have done the same, but “in the spirit of the staircase”: If I had replied to this particular judge with anything that he might have interpreted as the slightest hint of sarcasm, I think I would have gotten a free night’s stay in a small room with a poor view and not the nicest roommates 😲 ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/49 "2022-09-15T17:37:32Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If I’m on the other side, how can I question the “witness” or verify their qualifications? I don’t know that it exactly qualifies under the Confrontation Clause but it seems unfair that you can present expert evidence that I have no way of countering. IANAL, but I would imagine that in the large majority of such cases, the prosecutors aren’t going to bother filing a motion to delay until they can conduct a full investigation into the legitimacy of the plumber’s letter and/or hire their own experts to examine the lawn in question. But if they did, the judge would probably have to take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/50 "2022-09-15T17:46:19Z")
You probably have a water leak and are using an unexpected amount of water. The AC is a misdirection. I doubt that anyone is driving around checking for water use on the wrong day. Say that the normal water use for your area and neighbors who are following the rules is 5000 gallons per month (numbers are made up by me). But you are using 8000 gallons or 10,000 gallons per month, you are obviously not following the expected usage. But you aren’t watering your lawn at all. So where is it going and why do you have water in the gutter? Contact your water company or the city if they are the supplier and ask if they can provide you with historic water usage records. Be honest and explain that you are trying to chase down a water leak. They don’t want wasted water either. Too much water is going somewhere. Maybe a leak on your side of the meter, maybe on the city/supplier side of the meter. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/51 "2022-09-15T17:48:59Z")
Naw. IANAL but I suspect it would go Prosecutor: Objection. Hearsay. Judge: Sustained. Why? If you want someone to present evidence it is your job to get them to come to court and testify and thus be subject to cross-examination. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/52 "2022-09-15T18:04:51Z")
As others have said, it would be ridiculous to apply the same standards to a minor civil matter as to a serious criminal trial. A judge is not going to force some plumber to take time off work to come personally testify about this trivial matter. Applying such a standard would make it almost impossible for defendants to offer any evidence at all in their defense. Personally, in my only small claims court experience, I sued the driver who hit me while I was riding my bike. The police report established that she was as fault. For damages, I presented as evidence the bill from the repair shop, and the judge said “cool, that’s how much you owe him, case closed”. It’s been a while, but my recollection is that the other party did try to argue that I might have just written the bill up myself, and the judge wasn’t having any. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/53 "2022-09-15T18:34:17Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If you want someone to present evidence it is your job to get them to come to court and testify and thus be subject to cross-examination. So, your claim is that for every headlight or tail light or other issue that may come up, the mechanic who did the repair needs to testify in court that they made the repair? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/54 "2022-09-15T19:09:06Z")
Did I say that? No I didn’t. First of all if you present your repair bill then YOU are testifying that you took it in for repairs and to the best of your knowledge it is repaired. Ultimately the proof is that the headlight works because that’s a fix-it ticket. Remember the original scenario was that the plumber said the was from the pipe. I as the prosecutor would want to know how do they know that. If the plumber fixed the pipe and now there is no more water and there is documentation to that effect (like an invoice/bill) then there’s no issue. BUT if there is no evidence that that is the issue beyond, “Some guy looked at it said so.” then I have the right to ask the guy how he made that determination. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > the mechanic who did the repair needs to testify in court that they made the repair? The point is that he didn’t make the repair. THAT is the difference. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/55 "2022-09-15T19:24:26Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Ultimately the proof is that the headlight works because that’s a fix-it ticket. Except the judge doesn’t go out into the parking lot to check to make sure it works, they take your word for it that it’s a real invoice for the repair. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Remember the original scenario was that the plumber said the was from the pipe. Actually, that was not the original scenario. The original scenario was that the OP thought it was their AC, and was wondering if having an AC repair person write a note to that effect would be sufficient. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I as the prosecutor would want to know how do they know that. As an AC repair person, it would be their skills, experience, and knowledge that is how they know that. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > BUT if there is no evidence that that is the issue beyond, “Some guy looked at it said so.” then I have the right to ask the guy how he made that determination. Except that’s not what the OP said. Sure, you can make up all sorts of scenarios that would be questionable, but I’d prefer that we stick with the ones actually brought up in the OP, if you don’t mind reining in your imagination a little. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The point is that he didn’t make the repair. THAT is the difference. But the OP _was_ planning on having him come out and inspect it, maybe fix whatever was wrong with it to cause it to leak so much water. Turns out it was a different issue before it got that far. But _had_ it been the AC, why wouldn’t they have accepted an AC mechanics word for it? Let’s say you get a ticket for having a headlight out. You go to your repair shop, they say, it’s not the headlight, it’s the wiring, so they replace the wiring. You then go in with that invoice, do you expect the prosecutor to say, “He didn’t make the repair!” That’s pretty much the argument you are making here. It’s a pretty silly argument, and I don’t see the point of it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/56 "2022-09-15T19:36:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Let’s say you get a ticket for having a headlight out. You go to your repair shop, they say, it’s not the headlight, it’s the wiring, so they replace the wiring. You then go in with that invoice, do you expect the prosecutor to say, “He didn’t make the repair!” That’s pretty much the argument you are making here. It’s a pretty silly argument, and I don’t see the point of it. The headlight is not analogous because as a fix-it ticket it is either fixed or not. They don’t care if it was a bulb, fuse or wiring. If you had it seen by 5 mechanics that diagnosed it and had the new bulb on your passenger seat then it is not fixed and you are fined. Now I’m not saying a city attorney wouldn’t accept an estimate from the AC repair person and drop it. They probably would. My point is if they wanted to press the issue, they could object as hearsay so that the prosecutor could ask: What’s your background, how did you ascertain that was a problem how did you ascertain that was the ONLY problem, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/57 "2022-09-15T20:15:28Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Naw. IANAL but I suspect it would go > Prosecutor: Objection. Hearsay. > Judge: Sustained. I bet 100000 quatloos there won’t be a prosecutor. Nor a jury. Nor likely an actual Judge. There is a reasonable chance that there will be just a hearing officer and the OP, with no one representing the other side at all, just the citation. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/58 "2022-09-15T20:46:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The headlight is not analogous because as a fix-it ticket it is either fixed or not. They don’t care if it was a bulb, fuse or wiring. If you had it seen by 5 mechanics that diagnosed it and had the new bulb on your passenger seat then it is not fixed and you are fined. And if I go out and buy a bulb myself and install it, then that will usually not be good enough. There is something to be said for “expert witnesses” even if that expert is not present to testify, and only gives an invoice with maybe a brief comment. You misrepresented the OP by changing his AC repair person to “some guy” and a note from him (which would be assumed to be on company letterhead, and probably an invoice for a diagnostic) to the OP making the statement. I mean, if you make stuff up, then you can come to any conclusion you want, but we were basing things off of reality, not the furthest reaches of your imagination. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Now I’m not saying a city attorney wouldn’t accept an estimate from the AC repair person and drop it. That sounded like the entirety of your argument. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My point is if they wanted to press the issue, they could object as hearsay so that the prosecutor could ask: What’s your background, how did you ascertain that was a problem how did you ascertain that was the ONLY problem, etc. My point is that, while they certainly _could_, they most certainly _wouldn’t._ ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/59 "2022-09-19T17:47:53Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And if I go out and buy a bulb myself and install it, then that will usually not be good enough. My (admittedly years old) experience with fix-it tickets is that when I had a tail light out and got the ticket, I had to buy a bulb, replace the bulb, then go to a nearby CHP station, get an officer to come outside and verify that the tail light was working, and sign off on the ticket that it had been fixed. I then mailed that in. Never heard anything back, but I assume there isn’t a warrant out. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526/60 "2022-09-20T17:04:17Z")
A few years ago I got pulled over for speeding, headlight out, and driving on an expired license (I had no idea – it was two weeks after my birthday and that year was my renewal year. I simply missed it.) Cop wrote me a warning for the speeding (I have never had this happen to me before – either they give you a verbal warning or a ticket), and two tickets for the other violations. I got everything fixed, license renewed. I go to traffic court, and watch all the cases go before me (about two hours, I think), and then court is dismissing. I pipe up and say “I didn’t hear my case called?” “Who are you?” “Peter P”. They shuffle through some papers. “What was the ticket for?” “One for headlight out, and one for driving on an expired license. I got the receipt for the headlight and my new license here.” “OK, dismissed,” without even looking at my receipt or license. I was even still at the back of the room – never approached the bench. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/water-restriction-fine-how-should-i-prepare-for-court/971526.md?page=4)