# Waxer fired for refusing to get waxed: reasonable or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512 "2013-07-03T06:08:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/81 "2013-07-10T00:39:40Z")
No, because you haven’t been able to distinguish this practice from strip clubs. Or point to any evidence that the spa has male waxing clients, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/82 "2013-07-10T01:11:20Z")
It’s really not hard to distinguish what goes on in a strip club from what goes on in a spa. It has been established in the previously linked complaint that: > [@](#): > > 1. The Employers do not require male employees to perform Brazilian waxes on coworkers, nor do they require male employees to receive Brazilian waxes from co-workers. Whether or not the spa has male waxing clients has absolutely bupkus to do with anything. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/83 "2013-07-10T02:02:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, because you haven’t been able to distinguish this practice from strip clubs. Strip clubs employ adult dancers whose sole job duty is to to take off their clothes on stage. Since this duty literally _defines_ their job, it is permitted to require them to do so. Similar reasoning is what enables casting directors to refuse to employ actors whose gender or ethnicity does not match that of the character to be played: being able to convincingly represent a certain character is the very thing that an actor is hired to do. Again, please note that a club owner would not be legally permitted to require their dancer employees to give brazilian waxes to each other, as that is outside the purview of their job duties. People hired as beauticians, by contrast, may _not_ be required to take off their clothes to perform their job duties. This is because whether or not they are nude has no bearing on how satisfactorily they perform beautician-related job tasks. I hope this clears up any misunderstandings that you may have had re: the difference between strippers and salon technicians. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/84 "2013-07-10T13:45:08Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Whether or not the spa has male waxing clients has absolutely bupkus to do with anything. Of course it does. This is a _training program._ Why on earth would they require male waxers to train for something they don’t offer? > [@colander](#): > > Strip clubs employ adult dancers whose sole job duty is to to take off their clothes on stage. Since this duty literally _defines_ their job, it is permitted to require them to do so. The ability to perform a Brazilian wax is literally what defines a waxer’s job. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/85 "2013-07-10T14:21:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The ability to perform a Brazilian wax is literally what defines a waxer’s job. The ability to _receive_ a Brazilian wax does not. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/86 "2013-07-10T14:38:11Z")
Maybe, maybe not. I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable to require somebody giving one to have had one herself, given the nature of the process. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/87 "2013-07-10T14:56:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Maybe, maybe not. I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable to require somebody giving one to have had one herself, given the nature of the process. Well it might be nice to know that your waxer has undergone the procedure and can sympathize with the discomfort, etc, I don’t see how it is **necessary** in order for the waxer to do the job well. Should bald men be disallowed from cutting women’s hair? Can a white hairdresser perform certain hair treatments on a black customer? Or to take this farther, should we only allow female gynecologists? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/88 "2013-07-10T15:00:47Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > It’s really not hard to distinguish what goes on in a strip club from what goes on in a spa. It is if you go to the right kind of spa. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/89 "2013-07-10T15:29:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Of course it does. This is a _training program._ Why on earth would they require male waxers to train for something they don’t offer? > > The ability to perform a Brazilian wax is literally what defines a waxer’s job. > [@Grumman](#): > > The ability to _receive_ a Brazilian wax does not. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Maybe, maybe not. I don’t think it’s particularly unreasonable to require somebody giving one to have had one herself, given the nature of the process. Why? Does a heart surgeon need to have undergone a heart transplant? Does a mortician need to have been embalmed? She’s already licensed by the state. She has already demonstrated her ability to do the work. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/90 "2013-07-10T15:41:45Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > Or to take this farther, should we only allow female gynecologists? “We” as a state? No. “We” as an _employer_? Why not? > [@Doug\_K](#): > > She’s already licensed by the state. She has already demonstrated her ability to do the work. Where do you see that? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/91 "2013-07-10T15:46:43Z")
Would it be acceptable if the salon had only required she bring back proof of getting a Brazillian wax? Like, from another company? Because I 100% sympathize with her about not wanting to show off my genitals to my coworkers. That problem could be solved by going to a different salon…? ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/92 "2013-07-10T15:51:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Where do you see that? In the previously linked [complaint](http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/Jennifer-Finley-complaint.pdf). > [@](#): > > 1. As a licensed esthetician, Plaintiff is qualified for the position of Wax Specialist. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/93 "2013-07-10T16:21:52Z")
Assuming the facts as laid out in the complaint are correct, the spa clearly blew it in two ways: 1. While requiring a waxer to receive a waxing may have been reasonable, requiring a waxer to receive the waxing while her colleagues looked on most certainly wasn’t. As others have said, that’s sexual harassment territory. 2. Requiring the female waxers, but not the male waxers, to receive a waxing is simple and straightforward sex discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/94 "2013-07-10T16:25:46Z")
For what it’s worth, my wife is a licensed esthetician and said that they did sometimes wax each other during training (at school, while earning her certificate) but that it wasn’t mandatory to be waxed. Nor was it a training requirement at the spa where she now works, although they do wax each other voluntarily. What it seems to hinge on (to me, anyway) is whether she actually was made aware of the requirement in her interview and consented to it, as she claims didn’t happen. Unless it was a written agreement that she signed, I’m not sure how either side could prove whether it happened or not. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/95 "2013-07-10T16:28:08Z")
I wax interested in this conundrum!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/96 "2013-07-10T16:43:26Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > For what it’s worth, my wife is a licensed esthetician and said that they did sometimes wax each other during training (at school, while earning her certificate) but that it wasn’t mandatory to be waxed. Nor was it a training requirement at the spa where she now works, although they do wax each other voluntarily. > > What it seems to hinge on (to me, anyway) is whether she actually was made aware of the requirement in her interview and consented to it, as she claims didn’t happen. Unless it was a written agreement that she signed, I’m not sure how either side could prove whether it happened or not. And what if the verbal agreement was “You have to get a brazilian wax” and not “by our employees”? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/97 "2013-07-10T17:01:15Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > And what if the verbal agreement was “You have to get a brazilian wax” and not “by our employees”? Yeah, there are a lot of possibilities… maybe they didn’t mention it at all, and if they had she would have strongly disagreed as she’s doing now. Maybe they did mention it but didn’t explain fully (or she didn’t understand) what it would entail. Maybe they mentioned it and she agreed, thinking she could get out of it when the time came. Maybe they asked and she consented, but planned ahead to balk, get shitcanned and then sue for a payout. IMO those are in order from most to least likely, but who knows for sure. Her complaint (of course) makes her sound calm, collected, polite, and a paragon of reason compared to her inflexible employer, but maybe she actually went apeshit and screamed obscenities at them, making her a bad gamble in their eyes, hairless or not. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/98 "2013-07-12T17:03:56Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > What it seems to hinge on (to me, anyway) is whether she actually was made aware of the requirement in her interview and consented to it, as she claims didn’t happen. Unless it was a written agreement that she signed, I’m not sure how either side could prove whether it happened or not. I’m sure the other trainees will be deposed, and if their testimony of their experience dovetails with what she alleges in her complaint, then that would be pretty good evidence, IMHO. **But** I don’t think it hinges on that. Getting someone’s consent to discrimination and sexual harassment in advance don’t make these things go away. An employer is required to not discriminate on the basis of sex, period; the employer can’t just get women employees to sign a waiver saying, “I am aware that XYZ Co. has differential working conditions on the basis of sex, and I consent to being discriminated against in this manner, including giving up my right to take legal action on that basis.” Similarly, I’m sure, for sexual harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512/99 "2013-07-12T17:06:39Z")
Well, it _can_ make them sign a waiver, but it can’t enforce it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/waxer-fired-for-refusing-to-get-waxed-reasonable-or-not/662512.md?page=4)