# WAY more than you wanted to know about Rudy Giuliani **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 15, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095 "2023-05-15T21:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/101 "2023-07-11T18:29:04Z")
From the link: > We have considered in mitigation Mr. Giuliani’s conduct following the September 11 attacks as well as his prior service in the Justice Department and as Mayor of New York City. But all of that happened long ago. The misconduct here sadly transcends all his past accomplishments. Translation: Yes he behaved marginally competently in the past, but that was before he went round the bend into batshit craziness. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/102 "2023-07-11T19:57:44Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Yes the only cure for any discrepancy, real or imagined, large or small, is to throw out the votes and declare DJT the winner. This seems to have been Giuliani’s clearly stated belief. The “proof” is that everyone knows that all Democrats are cheaters. QED. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/103 "2023-07-11T22:07:01Z")
Mr. Giuliani, “Everybody is saying” cannot be entered into evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/104 "2023-07-11T22:14:26Z")
“Well, Your Honor, we have plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are _kinds_ of evidence.” - Lionel Hutz ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/105 "2023-07-13T00:37:49Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Mr. Giuliani, “Everybody is saying” cannot be entered into evidence. how 'bout **“_I heard a lot of people say …_”**??? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/106 "2023-07-21T00:22:07Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > The court ordered rudy to appear, and he explained that the FBI had seized a lot of his devices, and the vendor who could provide the information had told him it would cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars to retrieve these emails (that makes no sense to me, but I don’t know…) Maybe he hasn’t paid his cloud provider in a year or more. They could demand that he get cirrent before releasing his data. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/107 "2023-07-21T00:58:14Z")
Can it be entered into evidence if there are tears in everbody’s eyes? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/108 "2023-07-21T01:48:37Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Maybe he hasn’t paid his cloud provider in a year or more. Oh yes. I see now that dougrb already confirmed this. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/109 "2023-07-22T02:37:37Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Maybe he hasn’t paid his cloud provider in a year or more. They could demand that he get cirrent before releasing his data. [steely glare] Or maybe he’s just planning to pay the cloud provider cumulatively. I know the dude’s kind of a nimbus but perhaps they figure that he’s from a high enough social stratus that he’s bound to be good for the money. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2023, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/110 "2023-07-22T03:14:55Z")
Are you being cirrus? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/111 "2023-07-26T13:04:43Z")
Rudy admits that he lied about the Georgia election workers, but his statements were constitutionally protected and didn’t harm those workers. > **[Rudy Giuliani admits lying about Georgia election workers targeted by Trump](https://www.newsweek.com/rudy-giuliani-election-workers-georgia-lawsuit-1815422)** > > The former president's ex-legal adviser conceded making "false" statements, but argued that it did not mean they caused the workers damage. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/112 "2023-07-26T13:13:46Z")
He admitted the statements were false, and those workers can show damages resulting. At this point Rudy’s going to paying off settlements for the next three lifetimes. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/113 "2023-07-26T13:15:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > those workers can show damages resulting. Yeah, they received death threats. Rather damaging, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/114 "2023-07-26T14:17:55Z")
Wonder who’s first in line for the scraps; all the X-wives or the election workers? Nothing left Rudy - perhaps a sudden attack of conscience? Do the right thing, make history, slay the dragon! " he’s dead Jim (inside)" ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/115 "2023-07-26T14:28:50Z")
This smells of a desperation move. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/116 "2023-07-26T15:39:46Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Rudy admits that he lied about the Georgia election workers, but his statements were constitutionally protected and didn’t harm those workers I don’t understand the rationale for this. If his statements were constitutionally protected (they weren’t) he could file a motion on that without admitting the other elements of the allegations. He could simply say, “_for purposes of hits motion_, we’ll admit all the allegations, but even then, the claims must fail.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/117 "2023-07-26T15:42:14Z")
The rationale is that Rudy thinks he’s a much better lawyer than he actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/118 "2023-07-26T15:56:55Z")
There are four elements of defamation, 1. Giuliani made a statement that is factually untrue as if it were true. 2. Giuliani published this statement to third party. 3. Giuliani knew or should have known the statement to be factually untrue when he made it. (That is, he lied or was willfully ignorant.) 4. The publication of this statement caused harm to the election workers seeking damages. Giuliani admitted 2 and did not contest 1, but that’s not the end of story because points 3 and 4, so far as I can tell, are still being litigated. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/119 "2023-07-26T16:01:18Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Giuliani admitted 2 and did not contest 1, but that’s not the end of story because points 3 and 4, so far as I can tell, are still being litigated. He admitted that the statements were defamatory per se. That removes the requirement (#4) that plaintiffs establish they were damaged. > Generally, for defamation per se, the statements are presumed harmful whereas for [defamation per quod](https://dictionary.findlaw.com/definition/libel-per-quod.html) the damage must be proven. Most but not all states recognize the distinction between these two types of defamation. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095/120 "2023-07-26T16:17:00Z")
I think - I haven’t read the actual filings - Giuliani’s strategy here is to allege that the election workers were public figures. (Which is a pretty lame argument IMO.) The presumption of defemation per se doesn’t usually apply when the statement is directed at a public figure, likewise the standard is usually raised from mere negligence to actual malice as criticism of public figures has some 1st Amendment implications. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-rudy-giuliani/984095.md?page=7)