# Way to go, UAW! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 12, 2008, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855 "2008-12-12T09:01:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/301 "2008-12-27T02:31:03Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Just what are you telling us **gonzomax**? That non union companies can actually be good for auto workers? A more responsible management that suffers in bad times instead of making out like bandits would be a big improvement. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/302 "2008-12-28T21:28:32Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > A more responsible management that suffers in bad times instead of making out like bandits would be a big improvement. Ain’t how capitalism works, bubba. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/303 "2008-12-28T21:39:49Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Ain’t how capitalism works, bubba. Thats one of capitalisms flaws. Any reason we don’t fix it , cowboy? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/304 "2008-12-28T21:41:57Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Thats one of capitalisms flaws. Any reason we don’t fix it , cowboy? Apparently it’s not a bug. It’s a feature… ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/305 "2008-12-29T00:32:38Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Apparently it’s not a bug. It’s a feature… dingdingding:::We HAAAVE A WINNER, give that man a cee-gar. Over here, it’s every man for himself, over there, it’s every man for every other man, which is fine in theory, but hardly works in the long term, especially if you like things like toilet paper and uh, freedom. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/306 "2008-12-29T01:02:51Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > dingdingding:::We HAAAVE A WINNER, give that man a cee-gar. > > Over here, it’s every man for himself, over there, it’s every man for every other man, which is fine in theory, but hardly works in the long term, especially if you like things like toilet paper and uh, freedom. So your vision of America is one where fucking your neighbor over is good. Where you do whatever you want to get ahead. You have no feeling for the plight of others,fuck them it’s not you. Capitalism is a battle ground between those who see us as thinking caring people who have common interests and goals and those who think they should step all over anyone who gets in their way. It is not Enron, Madoff and Paulson to some of us. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/307 "2008-12-29T01:08:29Z")
Question: why does the UAW mainatain a $33 million golf resor in Michigan? Why are union dues subsidize rich union official’s golf outings? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/308 "2008-12-29T14:55:44Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Question: why does the UAW mainatain a $33 million golf resor in Michigan? Why are union dues subsidize rich union official’s golf outings? And a more existential question: is there a big enough number of illicit union dollars to make it worthwhile to live in Michigan? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/309 "2008-12-29T15:24:36Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Question: why does the UAW mainatain a $33 million golf resor in Michigan? Why are union dues subsidize rich union official’s golf outings? It is a very good golf course. That is akin to bitching about the Big 3 execs showing up on private jets. A little thing to bitch about that really does not matter. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/310 "2008-12-29T16:05:29Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is a very good golf course. Oh, well, that’s okay then. It’s one thing if a corporation spends an assload of money on on a private jet for himself, or the board does; it’s another thing entirely if a union boss does it. Why aren’t the membership up in arms? Do they get to play the course? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/311 "2008-12-29T16:11:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oh, well, that’s okay then. > > It’s one thing if a corporation spends an assload of money on on a private jet for himself, or the board does; it’s another thing entirely if a union boss does it. Why aren’t the membership up in arms? Do they get to play the course? Yes, it’s available to every member, retiree and their families. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/312 "2008-12-29T16:24:04Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Yes, it’s available to every member, retiree and their families. Yep. The rates are between 35 and 85 dollars a round with a 20% drop for UAW members and a 30% drop for UAW retirees. That still doesn’t mean it’s smart for the union to own a bloody golf course. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/313 "2008-12-29T16:25:25Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is a very good golf course. > That is akin to bitching about the Big 3 execs showing up on private jets. A little thing to bitch about that really does not matter. On the contrary friend, the big three assholes showed up in private jets and were rightly beaten senseless in front of the taxpayers. Waste matters. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/314 "2008-12-29T16:29:30Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Yep. The rates are between 35 and 85 dollars a round with a 20% drop for UAW members and a 30% drop for UAW retirees. > > That still doesn’t mean it’s smart for the union to own a bloody golf course. Never said it was. But this has what to do with the UAW and the Big 3? How the UAW has chosen to spend its money has fuckall to do with whether they’re to blame in this Big 3 mess, which is what this thread is about. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/315 "2008-12-29T16:30:26Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > So your vision of America is one where fucking your neighbor over is good. Where you do whatever you want to get ahead. You have no feeling for the plight of others,fuck them it’s not you. > Capitalism is a battle ground between those who see us as thinking caring people who have common interests and goals and those who think they should step all over anyone who gets in their way. It is not Enron, Madoff and Paulson to some of us. :rolleyes: I said that? Me? **I** said that’s how **I** want to see America? Or, did I say that’s how capitalism IS? I’ll give you a minute… …OK. Figure it out yet? I didn’t say that the current system of the fat cats fiscally disemboweling the proletariat was the best way. We both know it’s not. The best thing about capitalism is the competition, the worst thing about it? You guessed it, competition. Your view is far too one-sided. You clearly have no experience dealing with anything other than your own myopic point of view. I re-urge you to get some education about business and how it works. Capitalism isn’t the battle ground, America is the battleground, capitalism is the gun, money is the ammuniution. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/316 "2008-12-29T16:38:04Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Never said it was. But this has what to do with the UAW and the Big 3? How the UAW has chosen to spend its money has fuckall to do with whether they’re to blame in this Big 3 mess, which is what this thread is about. Of course it is but you can’t hold one side accountable for their waste and let the other side off the hook for theirs. IMO, it’s proof that the companies AND the union in this case are both corrupt and wasteful. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/317 "2008-12-29T16:48:30Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Of course it is but you can’t hold one side accountable for their waste and let the other side off the hook for theirs. IMO, it’s proof that the companies AND the union in this case are both corrupt and wasteful. This was purchased 1) When the union had more money, 2) with the approval of the members as a resort-type place for the memebers, retirees and their families, and 3) as an investment for the union. I agree this needs to be sold because 1) The union’s membership is sliding and resources are tighter than they were previously, 2) the crappy location makes it difficult for people to fly or drive there, and 3) this is a money-losing investment. Still, this has absolutely nothing to do with the OP or this thread, other than another “Look how corrupt the union is!” message. Desperation. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Big 3’s troubles, and the UAW’s role in that. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/318 "2008-12-29T16:56:37Z")
I am afraid if they had to unload Black Lake now they would lose a lot. This is bad market. By the way at one time it was a much loved resort. Even Lucy Ball and Desi spent their honeymoon there. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/319 "2008-12-29T16:57:24Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Still, this has absolutely nothing to do with the OP or this thread, other than another “Look how corrupt the union is!” message. Desperation. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Big 3’s troubles, and the UAW’s role in that. Yup, it’s not the union that’s had to go to Washington, begging for tax dollars, it’s the supposed captains of industry. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855/320 "2008-12-29T17:08:15Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Yup, it’s not the union that’s had to go to Washington, begging for tax dollars, it’s the supposed captains of industry. No doubt there was waste and mismanagement, but the UAW has a recognizable role in the current state of the big 3, like it or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-go-uaw/476855.md?page=17)