Cutting Wages Won't Solve Big Three's Problems | Labor Notes Here is a cite from the union side.
So, union workers are asked to voluntarily lower their own wages in line with the wages earned by workers at foreign-owned companies. What about executive compensation, for the poor wretches who slave away over spreadsheets and attend meetings? Last I checked, and it has been a while, the notion that a CEO deserved a thousand times the salary of the widget riveter was peculiarly American. Has that changed, are foreign companies emulating our wise investment in talent?
I guess I’d expect this sort of logic from a project manager. The problem is that even with the billions of people in China and India as opposed to here on US soil, there are not large enough numbers to replace American software developers who can trn out quality work.
Everyplace I have worked has ended up needing 3 or more indian guys (I don’t know how many chinese, we never offshored there) to equal the output of one American guy who knows how to actualy understand what the business people want. Once you’re paying 3 indian guys 25 an hour, you’re awfully close to that $80 you were just complaining about.
I’ll repeat. From your cite
So is there no labour costs in the manufacture of hubcaps and fenders? What about all the other parts that go into assembly. Tell me they aren’t union built as well? I can buy that the labour cost of assembly might be only 10% of a vehicle, but that simply ignores the cost of labour involved in manufacturing parts and the maintenance of plant and tooling which are even more significant.
You may stop the 70 dollar crap immediately. You are wrapping legacy costs for retirees and claiming it is wages. It is not. It is bullshit and is completely dishonest. The wages of workers is the same as foreign worker in America. The profits are being sent back to their motherlands though. If you think it is no difference ,it just says a lot about you and nothing about your argument.But anyone stating UAW wages are 70 is using propaganda and knows no shame.
Although it’s not clear from that article, it could be that those parts are purchased from independent suppliers, as many other parts are. If this is the case, wage cuts at the big 3 will not affect these prices at all.
Who gives a shit? The point is that the big three do have to pay this legacy salary. Call it what ever you want. They still have to pay it for pensions and medical insurance. Why is this hard for you to understand? It is killing them all.
Um… the other workers aren’t foreign. They’re Americans, working for foreign companies. Believe it or not, Alabama and Tennessee were invited to rejoin the Union.
Mismanagement and producing shitty products are killing them. High total human resource costs* are just poking them in the eye a bit.
*since nobody can seem to agree on whether what they’re paying retirees are “labor costs” or not, I say we call them “human resource costs”. You, sir, are a number.
Elucidator this will be the fourth time that I post this.
As I have become more informed on this issue I agree that the $70 figure is misleading. However from what I see the UAW workers still make more an hour then their counterparts. I don’t know what we can do to lessen the legacy cost for the big three that is ethical. Some people are gonna get hosed badly and I’m glad I don’t have to make that decision.
That’s nice, dear. And how is that working out for you? Do keep me informed, won’t you?
That is a wonderful accounting stratagery. Retirement and pensions are not accounted for during the employment years because they are not paid until later and they are not accounted for later because the guys are no longer working. So it is never a cost. Not now, not later. It is money which materializes magically out of thin air and which no one has to pay. No need to get it out of the people who buy cars. It is all in the magic of accounting!
Add it, subtract it, input it, extract it, debit it, credit it, turn it around nine times and, presto!, we can pay retirement benefits out of nowhere. Isn’t accounting great?
OOP’s I apologize I confused your post with Gonzo’s. My point for him was simply that according to his own cite his claim that
is completely false. I had posted that multiple times before and I don’t know why he refuses to recognize it.
Well we pay ours many times more. What more proof can there be?
I love it when someone shows bigotry by quoting the 73 dollar an hour figure. Since Honda is 48 $ all we have to do is cut the big 3 workers 25 bucks an hour. Of course they would be working for free or actually owe every week. But numbers are numbers .
Quite all right, Mom could never tell us apart either. Still liked him better.
Because you are wrong and I have given you cites that you ignore.
You just don’t get it do you. How the hell do you expect GM to compete when their labour obligations cost them $25 per hour more than Toyota for every hour that a worker works ?
Would you buy stocks in GM or lend them money ? Why should everyone else?
There are about 450,000 GM retirees. They do not get medical coverage from their government. They get it from the employee. That is the flaw in the system. But that cost is wrapped up into the wage price when people choose to be dishonest in the discussion. We could bookeep it some where else and deal with the fact that workers in the big 3 are on par with Toyota workers here. Since we have been here much longer our retirement pool is much,much bigger. It is a cost of doing business but it is not a wage.
And sometimes that is true, and sometimes it isn’t. We’ve discovered hiring our own people in China we get quality work out of our Chinese developers.
The Thai guys we pay around $12 an hour to are worth two of our U.S. guys - those guys ROCK.
Quite the opposite. I’ve been using your cites to show you are wrong.
This is the site that you gonzomax linked.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/121308dnbusautopay.3e09ca7.html
This site says
So if we take out the 16 dollar legacy costs Ford motor company pays 29 + 26 = 55 dollars an hour.
According to your cite Toyota pays sub 50. I believe I read 47 somewhere else?
So toyota’s labor cost is at least 5 to 8 dollars an hour lower.
Math has never been my strong subject so if I’ve made some math errors go ahead and correct them for me.