http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6674/is_/ai_n26624878 Heres the training by foreign plants in America. The visualization of working in an auto plant that most people have does not square with the reality.
I just watched a program on the auto crisis. We all know when SUVs were hot the big 3 made a fortune. They invested the money in plants outside America. Their intention is to avoid the health care and labor costs in the US.
Toyota imports 46 % of the autos they sell here. That spreads their insurance costs out.
The southern strategy was to pay the same rates as union shops to prevent organization. They wanted to avoid the piling up of legacy costs. They wanted to avoid COLA. COLA is a cost of living allowance that is intended to keep workers on pace with inflation.
Labor costs is 10 % of the cost of an auto. Supervisory is 20 %, approx. triple German and Japanese counterparts.
In 1992 GM made 31 % of the autos sold in USA. They had 265,000 hourly employees. They made 4.4 million cars.
In 2005 GM made 4.5 million autos. That was with 111,000 hourly workers.
It is about healthcare costs . Some say GM is an insurance company that makes cars.
Hold on skippy. Are you talking assembly or stamping? Because in assembly, yeah, there’s training that needs to be had in a big way, but in the stamping plant both my father and I worked in, people were brought in, given OSHA classes and minor safety training and put on the floor to apprentice behind another button masher for a week until you were cut loose.
What you call the “southern strategy” is exactly the reason unions came into being; forcing employers to pay a living wage, give benefits and proper time off. Unions are the reason for current labor laws primarily. They were once effective, now they are bloated corpses of their former idealistic selves and struggling to hang on to a market that no longer needs them.
Companies, in my opinion rightly, want to avoid labor organization because it costs the company more money. It’s simple economics, you think for a second that if the legacy and labor costs weren’t strapping the companies that they’d move their factories across the border? The guy making $37 a day stamping door frames in Nogales isn’t going to buy new cars every year. It would be better for GM and better for the economy if they were able to keep the 260k plus employees on board here and have each one of them buy a new car every few years, not to mention their families and their friends and so-on. Now, the companies aren’t blameless. There’s not really a need for a car company to have a private jet or pay such inflated salaries to the management/supervision. When I was at Ford, the plant president, ironically because he was one, drove a brand new Jag every six months. Ford ate the costs. Conversely, the then union president ALSO drove a new Ford vehicle every 12 months. Ford ate the costs (they both had manufacturer plates).
It’s standard practice for the companies to “work” with the union quid-pro-quo and sometimes job-for-job. In negotiations one year, the UAW conceded five automation tender (button masher)jobs so that the UAW committee would have the right to park in the heated garage. They also traded three skilled tradesmen for one floor supervisor (foreman) that was the son of an active foreman. This is one plant, some 14 years ago. I can’t imagine what’s gone on before or since.
The entire industry, including the unions, is like an apple that’s decaying from the inside. It’s time, actually, it’s past time, to sharpen the edges, focus the directon, shed the excesses and clean the bums out. If that means reduced benefits for legacy workers, then that’s what it means, better that than having the entire thing die, which frankly, I am also OK with. Better they should seek bankruptcy protection than be handed this 17.4 Billion to piss away like the financial asshats.
Sorry bunky, it is much more than a persons experiences. I have worked non union all my life and I can match any horror story you can conjure about unions. The function of a union is to protect it’s workers. Not only in safety but in employment.
The retirees negotiated their retirements and health coverage with GM. They will lose it all. That is sure . One of the aims of all this industry disruption is to get out of the contracts. They will succeed. But that is not enough. They will get out of healthcare too. It is a problem for American business to compete with countries that don’t pay heath care . They will move abroad and import cars here.
So the fact that a bunch of over-entitled,unmotivated folks who know their performance at the job is irrelevant need three times the babysitting and double-checking is some how in the unions favor?
Wow, sometimes you people scare me. Plant work is hard ,dangerous and the productivity is very high. As always the vision some people have is so distorted. There are people who work on ergonomics .They have computers keeping track of line speed. Nothing stops the line.There are readouts identifying every inch of the production. Nobody sits around.
Except for the people in the job bank.
We are headed for a shit hole. The strength of America has been that even now, it is by far the biggest market in the world. If we continue to cut wages and take our manufacturing jobs abroad ,it will not stay that way. China has a whole lot more people that we do. We have made it possible for them to be the biggest market and the biggest manufacturer ,at least in the near future. They brought 300 million people into the middle class while we emptied ours. If that does not have you getting the cold sweats it should. If you people can quit taking shots at the union people you are jealous of, and realize that they are not your enemies ,we have a chance. In 20 years you wont recognize this country. The people so many of you admire, the Ivy League MBAs have managed to take down the economies of the whole world at once. Pure greed coupled with a thoroughly corrupt system of government regulators allowed them to loot at an unprecedented rate.
The illogic of what they did is frightening. When they worked for 150 thou a year and got bonuses many times higher every year ,they rigged the system. The books would always show huge profits. Even if they actually had enormous losses. They corrupted the regulators, auditors and the politicians. The damage they did has not even played out yet. It will get a lot worse. Yet you people whine about a union guy making 25 bucks an hour on the line.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081220/ap_on_go_pr_wh/meltdown_autos
The headline" Big 3 grab 17.4 billion dollars in loans"
Grab ,Nice term. It gives you a picture of a snatch and grab. Take it and run .
Heres an article about hedge funds gaining access to 200 billion in federal funds.
Much more benign. Gaining access does not connote a dirty deal or a grab of funds. Yet not only is it more than 5 times as much money, it is the people who actually helped cause the damage.
I read a book years ago about headline writing and how few people just scan them and do not read the article. You can slant the message quite well that way.
Everyone at the big 3 has taken a hair cut except for the Union workers. The executives aren’t getting bonuses (or salary in some cases), GM has stopped matching 401ks, white collar retirees had their health care cut, raises are on hold for white collar workers, and the dividend is suspended. Everyone is sacrificing. Except for the guys that are grossly overpaid. Which is unfortunate, simply because it means the Big 3 still aren’t going to be competitive, which means more money we can throw away in a few months.
Wrong again. The union renegotiated and accepted a 2 tier system where new employees get much lower rates of pay and lesser benefits.
Do you think they should just take away the retirees retirement programs? They have already allowed it to be cut. Where does it stop. Do you think the execs are getting rid of their retirement programs?
And yet somehow the non-union plants need one third the supervision
A snappy one-liner, Wolfman, but a bit thin. You are aware, I’m sure, that the regulations that define a “supervisor” or a “manager” are open to a lot of sleight of hand. The question of overtime, just for an instance.
For a thought experiment, pretend that the workers actually owned the means of production. Suppose they hired managers and white collar workers, and negotiated their salaries much like any other labor agreement. Do you think there would be as many? Do you think they would be so well paid for the grueling hours they spend slaving over spreadsheets? Would the top management be so well compensated for the brilliant decisions they have made these many years?
Which does nothing to affect the current union workers. It was sure nice of them to sell out future workers instead of taking cuts themselves. Really shows you where their priorities are. It doesn’t matter who else gets screwed as long as they get their money.
Yes, as noted in my previous post, white collar retirement benefits have been cut.
This hatred of unions is so misplaced. Where’s the hatred of the Ivy League MBAs that actually did this mess. The unions shrink every year. Your twisted and imaginary blame and hatred is so sad. They are just workers. They have very little power.
This is like average dingbats who voted for Bush or McCain. They vote for the ruling class and they will just do whatever the fuck they want. The elite have had 2 terms of self enrichment,while workers have had wages drop. Unemployment keeps climbing and it is no where near done. Yet so many of you act against your own interests.
Fine you explain this:
White collar retirees get their benefits cut.
Former executive get their benefits cut.
Current white collar workers get their benefits cut.
Current white collar workers aren’t getting raises.
Current executives are getting pay cuts.
Current executives aren’t getting bonuses or the like
Stockholders aren’t getting dividends.
Suppliers to the Big 3 aren’t getting paid.
New Union workers are getting lower wages.
Everyone with any sort of interest in the Big 3 is sacrificing except the union workers. Yet when someone suggests that they take a pay cut to match their well compensated compatriots that work for the foreign automakers somehow that counts as union busting and hatred. Everyone involved with the Big 3 is sacrificing. So you tell me, why should union workers be exempt from this sacrifice?
They have taken pay cuts and benefit cuts already. They are signed on for more. Is that a difficult concept.
If you believe the execs are not going to make up for theirs in the long run ,you have a weak grip on reality. If they leave ,it will be with an enormous financial and stock package. They will get any thing they gave up back in bonuses. But they will get theirs. They are putting on a show.
The current union workers haven’t made any concessions.
The UAW agreed to givebacks in contracts in 2003 and 2005. American Axle starts their workers at 14 bucks an hour. Gettlefinger agreed to killing the jobs bank already.
If you really believe the execs will not get it all back ,you better rethink.
So what sacrifices did the current union members make?
Uh hu, and what do legacy AA workers make?
Oh, how generous of him.
Perhaps. Or perhaps the companies go tits up and they lose everything, including whatever stock they own. Besides, if the execs manage to guide the Big 3 through these tough times and back to profitability, I have no problem with them getting big bonuses. They will have deserved it.