Leland Stanford argued for just those types of actions, which is interesting given that he was one of the Robber Barons.
http://dynamics.org/~altenber/PAPERS/BCLSFV/
I have often wanted the Unions to buy the firm - or at least majority share of the ownership. BUY their way into control, so that shareholders and the employees are truly aligned.
I wonder if it would turn into Animal Farm, or if Boxer and his minions might win this time around.
The current stock holders might be happy to sell their shares to someone engaged in a buyout. There is no difference between Union money doing a buyout and any other investment organization.
The Union just needs to get 51% of the shares.
True, but it does open a whole host of practical issues.
That is shamefull bullshit. Is this where I reinforce my opinion by calling you a name?
They protect everybody. They do not just fight for the lesser worker. I suppose you think they should be an arm of the company and simply agree to whatever the company says.
No you listen, you nattering fuckwit: The UAW isn’t the only union out there. Why are you damning all unions and their members over what you perceive to be the sins and problems of one union? I still see everyday workers fighting for their right to organize in prisons where COs are placed in high-risk situations without weapons and radios, and earning less than $12/hr. I see healthcare workers who have worked at wealthy Catholic hospitals for 15 years and make no more than $8.50. I see organizing nurses who work in cirtical care units trying to provide care for 6 or more patients at once-- critical care patients-- with no concern from their employer regarding staffing ratios. There are people working in sweat-shop conditions right here in this country who produce food, clothing and other stuff for us to consume; they still need the protection of unions. It’s these fucked up conditions that have contributed to the staggering collapse of our economy more than anything else-- that the divide between the wealthy and non-wealthy is greater now than it’s been in decades. *That’s *what’s fucking up our economy more than unions, like it or not.
Just because union members and their leadership don’t always make the decisions that you would doesn’t mean they’re worthless or fucked up. Similarly, just because city governments and state governments and federal governments don’t make the same decisions you would doesn’t mean we oust democratic principles in civic life.
99% of people involved in unions aren’t getting rich. There’s no pressure to maintain a “stranglehold” on labor; it’s a fight to maintain a voice for workers in opposition to only corporate, bottom-line, ruling-class interests.
What was your involvement in your “large national unions?” Did you ever make an effort to change things at a local level? Or were you too ignorant, lazy or indifferent to make your voice heard? And now, because of your lousy experience, you’re more than happy to throw all organized workers out with yesterday’s shit.
We could all sit here and pound our dicks til the cows came home about who’s right and who’s wrong. So fuck it, I have better things to do than bang dicks with you on the internet. Nothing’s gonna change your mind, nothing’s gonna change mine. It doesn’t really matter who bangs their dick loudest or hardest or with the most cites or anecdotes or whatever. The economy is still gonna suck tomorrow, it’s still gonna be cold as fuck, and I’m still probably gonna have a cheeseburger for lunch. So with that, I bid you adios.
Unions are worse than I thought. Toyota has announced they are going to lose a couple billion. They don’t have unions 'so ours must even be affecting them. What other explanation is there?
Contagion. Cooties and ideas, they spread.
They aren’t asking for a bailout.
Neither did the union.
Part of the problem here is that you guys look down on auto workers and think the company execs are actually some kind of geniuses. No matter how often they fuck up you think they are really smart and deserve respect. They do not. They should be dragged out in the street by their legs.
You are buying an illusion. If you live in Columbus ,Ohio and want to go to an Ivy League school. you need to do very well to qualify. So you think everybody there is that smart. You believe these schools are much more difficult. Fact is they are just harder to get into.
When someone graduates with an MBA from Univ. of Mich, Stanford or Faver College. do you think he regrets not getting those secret classes only available at Harvard or Yale.?It’s crap. Most of the students are children of the rich. Bush,Kennedy ,Dupont ,Rockerfeller,all can go there if they want. What school will risk a potential multiple million dollar gift or risk the guaranteed famous and powerful speakers . It is good business and they have been doing it a long time. They have what is called “gentlemens Cs”. You don’t flunk a Kennedy or Bush. You would not dare. Even one like George Jr, who drank and coked his time away. They all know that once they get out, they have a big boost. They will get the job. They will get the promotion. They will get big raises. Bush fucked up every enterprise he got into. He took oil companies down when ran them when oil companies were making a killing. He was saved by Saudi money over and over. But damn he was a Yale grad,doesn’'t that count for something. The correct answer is no. Get over the awe of the chosen and elite. Make them earn it.
So you are telling me that Rednecks from Alabama and Mississippi are somehow able to build a better car than Union workers at the big three because of luck? I’m not even sure what you are trying to say.
The business model is broke, busted and fucked up. Why is this a hard concept for you? The unions are nearly dead and rightfully so. This is not the 30’s anymore.
Whos business model is that? The UAW told them to get in back of national healthcare to take it off their backs. The management just could not do the right thing. It was more important to stick to stupid ownership attitudes that ended up costing them a ton over the years. Just another stupid move by management.
The unions are not in charge of the business models. We would have been much better off if they were.
Ah, there’s where the mistake was made. I didn’t damn the members, quite the contrary, I curse the unions who have forgotten just who and what they’re working for.
Again, never did I say that. What I said was that the union leadership, with special attention paid to the UAW has been fucking things up for years. Just because they don’t subscribe to my line of thinking is not the issue, the part they played in shooting holes in their own boats, IS, and no one is talking about the ouster of democratic priciples.
No, just like the fat cats in the board rooms, the 99% is paying for the union elite to get rich and for the union to line its coffers. No, there’s no pressure to maintain a stranglehold, the pressure comes in trying to break the stranglehold. Certianly the workers should have a voice, but if it is my company, if it is my hard work that built the company, it is my interests that are primarily served. If I need to employ people, it is in my best interest to make sure they’re happy and taken care of. Unions are the legally protected third party that steps in and forces me into things I do not want, cannot afford and wouldn’t choose to provide. You mistake buisness for a democracy. It isn’t. Businesses are for profits, if things get in the way of the profits, those things must be excised. If the profits don’t meed the needs of the businessman, he takes his business elsewhere. American steel and automotive industries are the prime examples.
I was a shop steward and stand-in BA for a Teamster local and an SEIU local. I attended meetings, spoke to presidents, other agents, delegates and those with union leadership who never once truly took interest in the things the people I represented wanted to have happen. The unions don’t care about the workers. The BA that “represented” us never showed up to a contract negotiation, despite his $90,000 plus union salary that my dues paid for. Never once did the union attorney attend. The union left us in the wind and I played the necessary politics to make the increase in wages and benefits happen on my own, which gave me a true perspective to take on the role of manager. If you knew what the folks in my employ now have in comp and benefits, you’d shit your happy little pants. Why do they have it? Because I fought for it FOR them, as a manager. I trust the people who work for me and think they’ll do the right thing because they’re professionals. Sometimes they let me down. Sometimes not. The sad fact is though that everything they have now, they could have had three years ago were it not for the union being shoved down our throats.
My lousy experience is damn well good enough to tell me that the biggest of the unions need a flush from the inside out.
I appreciate your passion regarding organized labor. The fact is I share it. I think people ought to be able to have a voice, because it’s just the right thing to do, it’s wise business. The mechanism by which they get that voice however is broken, and badly. The largest of the labor unions (Teamsters) is hauling in money hand over fist from the members and proudly paying people who are already fully employed in a union shop an additional insanely large salary for doing next to nothing. That’s broken. The people, as always, are the ones who suffer. Organization is the answer to the labor woes in this country, doing so on an interest-based level will be the key, as I see it, to success.
Enjoy your burger.
You clearly THINK you know what you’re talking about, but you don’t. You seem to draw on only one perspective without regard for the reality of the way the world works. I suggest you do a little more reading and this time in a library, not on the internet. Endeavor to understand, seek what you think these “secret classes” contain. What you find will amaze you.
At an whole $.49 a day, who needs collective bargaining when you could upgrade from Walmart brand to the CRAFT Macaroni and Cheese.
:rolleyes:You could break it down to a by-the-hour cost if you want to, but come Christmas, I know at least a dozen people personally for whom $180 could make Christmas for their kids complete.
Toyota is showing a loss in spite of no unions and not having stupid ,bad decision making American management. Of course the president of Toyota says he will step down. He is not more important than the company. He feels responsibility for the workers. They do not like to lay off people.
Just what are you telling us gonzomax ? That non union companies can actually be good for auto workers?
No the Japanese exec actually believes if he does a bad job he has shamed himself. They don’t jump on a sword anymore but they do feel shame. They recognize who has the responsibility. They know who’s made the bad decisions.
Over here shit flows downhill. The company is in trouble ,it must be the workers fault. These guys on the top are just better than the rest of us. The chosen ones can not be at fault. No matter how often the truth shows through ,we ignore it.
Boesky, the Financial crisis, Madoff, Global Crossing, Tyco,World Com, Adelphia, Enron and many others just never break the unshakable American belief in our elite. They are just so smart ,we have no right to question them.
Nevermind.