You might try logic. Everything else seems to have failed you.
Gonzomax you, of all people have no ground to stand on when it comes to one sided viewpoints. As 'luci points out in typical droll fashion, unions have done damn near everything regarding the protection of the worker. They’re responsible for 8 hour workdays (who works THOSE any more?) pensions (no one but legacy auto workers, rail employees and gov’t workers have THOSE) and the safety rules are all part of the legacy of union struggles. In most cases though, no less than 50 years ago, while you stauchly in this thread paint all owners/managers/businessmen with the same hateful brush.
Unions are not the defenders of good and right they once were. They’re bloated bureaucracies awash in graft and corruption, just like the businesses they marshall their resources to complain about. I’ve been on both sides of the table, and in truth both sides have a good idea but just like any good idea, when you start applying an internal hierarchy, rules, regulations, controls and revenue streams, the idea goes from good to bad in just a few generations. You can compare the labor movement to every large, successful movement in history, from Christianity right on down to civil rights. It’s gone from hardscrabble men organizing at pubs and bars and in basements of homes to protect their jobs and livelihoods to multi-national organizations with billions in fund balances and as much fraud, waste and abuse as any other billion dollar multi-national organization.
The unions, especially the UAW, need an enema. They’re stopped up with thier own offal. They demand things be the way they were 20 years ago, when even THEN the business model wasn’t effective, but it was close enough to work.
The unions not getting press is not a big deal, there’s only so much space in the papers/press for do-gooders, so 9/11 really is not a germane comparison. There are likely thousands of stories that will never be told of individuals and groups of people who went above and beyond to help the responders. If the unions were doing it for press, shame on them, if they weren’t (and I don’t suspect they were) then they’ll be happy with no mention of it at all because a mention, while nifty, pales in comparison to the act.
Acytually, unions didn’t have much to do with improved conditions or hours or whatnot. Collective bargaining did, but the big gains were all won before the era of big unions. In fact, workers tended to get mroe out of strikes before employers just assumed those would be a constant thorn in their side. C’est la vie.
Actually workers don’t start unions. Badly managed companies do. I had a friend many years ago that his first job was at Ford as a shit checker. He had to make sure that the guys in the crapper were actually not loafing and actually pinching one off. The workers were exploited and abused. We are headed in that direction again. Unions got rid of unsafe conditions, child labor, excess overtime. got vacations and a living wage for it’s workers. There all filtered out into the general society. All are being abridged more every year. The companies are in control and time and a half has been slashed in many businesses. Safety regs are being killed and negotiated wages are being cut.
Union power is practically non existent . But the piling on is horrible.
I have never worked in a union job. I do however see how much good they have done for society. I am old enough and have encountered many guys who predate the union. You do not want to go back there again. But, you will. Unions have been destroyed. The middle class wage earner is gone.
The power of America has been its ability to buy .Sadly, our purchasing has had to be dealt with. Our middle class is being exterminated. Our buying power is diminished. When we are no longer the worlds market, we will lose our power. It is coming quickly. One day the world will say they do not need us anymore. We should be fighting to keep Americas wages high, instead of turning on our fellow citizens.
A true enough if not poorly written statement. You’re learning slowly why we DON’T need more unionization. First, companies need, collectively, to ensure the best possible circumstances for their workers. Second, the workers need to realize and accept that if the company offers the best it can and it’s not enough that you as a worker are free to go to…da da DA, ANOTHER COMPANY!
All that said, companies will do everything they can to lower costs, the largest of which in any setting is labor. If the entrance of the union causes labor costs to rise to levels unacceptable for the company to meet their margins for their stock holders (which, ironically in the case of the UAW, are many times also their members) they’re going to look for cheaper labor. Is this because the owners want more money? Yep. Is that wrong? Nope. That’s why the owners are in business, to make cars to sell cars to make money.
Excepting of course tie upper management pay to corporate performance. The elite’s right to massive wealth is sacrosanct.
I worked in the big 3 in engineering. When the unions got something in their contract we got it too. They did not want to provide us with a reason to become unionized. The competition had to match too, otherwise they could not get workers. The contracts elevated wages for the whole network of related jobs. It set a baseline. That line has been erased. Union wages affect the whole economy.Some engineering wages in Detroit have dropped more than 30 percent. Maybe you can feel good about that .but I see it a disturbing trend that will affect us all. If you see the world in us against them terms, ownership and management are not the side you should back.
But why would you want to punish success?! :rolleyes:
Yeah, success in having the right friends, who are all on each other’s boards of directors, who consistently vote to raise upper management compensation because they know that their buddy who just got that raise will do the same for them in their corp’s next board meeting.
The anti union types identify with management and the wealthy for some reason I don’t understand. The powerful are after your wages. They will get them. Every pay cut and job elimination is money in their pockets. It is harmful to the country though. We are on a down hill slope to smaller wages and less worker rights. The push to take them away is not due to unions. After unions are gone, and they practically are, there will be no push up for wages. All the power will be for smaller wages and less worker rights and safety.
You guys of course are exempt and you will just get more money every year.