# Way to start a holy war, Newsweek **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 15, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951 "2005-05-15T18:58:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/201 "2005-05-19T17:56:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Unless I’m very wrong, isn’t it a fairly common practice amongst the world’s military to assure it soldiers that they have no need to resist torture heroicly, they don’t know anything that crucial, and besides which, it will be assumed that they cracked anyway. And even if these people did know something two fucking years ago, is there any plausible chance they have information _now_? That is the underlying reason for the Need To Know. “We” only tell “our” people what the must know in order to do their job. A private or sergeant needs to know certain things. He does not need to know all the other things, such as the overall battle plan or the location and movements of all the divisions and brigades. If he doesn’t know those things, he can not give it away either under duress or even simple carelessness - during a bull session with his buddies (that someone else might be eavesdropping on). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/202 "2005-05-19T19:39:17Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Couple of points here worth mentioning. As has been covered in this thread a ways back, this was old news. It’s been reported by other sources and been attested to by prisoners released from gitmo. We don’t know how the conversations with the government officials that were contacted by newsweek went, only that one refused comment and the other neither confirmed or denied it. Likely the only plan would’ve been “We’ll look into it” which would do very little to placate the sort of people prone to rioting, especially given our lack of credibility these days. > > Lastly, do you really believe that Newsweek should have predicted this? Firstly: Yup, they should have predicted it. Don’t get me wrong: _I_ would not have predicted it, but I am no expert. I am asserting, however, that a regional expert would have known the penalties for abusing the Koran in Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. Furthermore, anybody who studied the Koran in the Mid East would have known that you are suppose to cleanse your mind before handling that holy book. Heck, it’s even thought unacceptable to stack other books on top of the Holy Koran. Q: So what should have Newsweek done? A: Written a piece evaluating abuses and the damage it does in the hearts and mind campaign. The big story (from my American POV) is that the interrogation was conducted by amateurs. As I alluded to above, close consultation with experts in military intelligence, Israeli intelligence, or a top big-city interrogator would have given us a vastly different approach. Instead, we got phony tough guy tactics. > [@](#): > > **Ex Tank** > — Well, there’s torture, and then there’s torture. There’s the slow, methodical, grinding, psychological torture necessary to break down ardent fanatics into willing mines of information. And then there’s ripping their testicles off with power tools. > > The first method is necessary, if distastefull, in a long-term campaign of Fighting Terrorism… My understanding is that in most _not all_ cases softer methods are more effective than torture lite, never mind torture dark. But again, this is a GD issue. [sub](And actually, I’ll be away for the next several days.)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/203 "2005-05-19T20:59:10Z")
I think they would have been well advised to omit it all together, or only some passing reference to unspecified allegations. As has been pointed out, this was not “news” in the sense of _Newsweek_ breaking a story, but referencing and underlining a story that was already out there. Probably didn’t think it was that big a deal. For my own two sense, the notion that a couple lines in _Newsweak_ sparked huge outrage in a nation largely illiterate in its own languages (never mind English) is a bit hard to take. I still detect the faint odor of rodent, underscored by the massive exploitation by the Tighty Righties in thier endless campaign to paint themselves as the beleagured victims of the Liberal Tedia. Maybe someone can clear that up for me. Who exactly said that the riots were specifically about the _Newsweek_ piece, and why are we compelled to take their word for it? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/204 "2005-05-19T21:43:59Z")
[Seems the Red Cross was raising concerns about US guards/interrogators’ treatment of the Koran back in 2002](http://www.metronews.ca/reuters_international.asp?id=74092). They say guidelines were instituted in 2003 to stop such behavior, and there hasn’t been a problem there since. > [@](#): > > The memorandum included the order: “Ensure that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet or dirty/wet areas.” > > “The guidelines didn’t come out of nowhere. You don’t get such orders unless there’s some problem, concern or controversy,” a U.S. official, who asked not to be named, said. So there was a problem here, though the specifics are less than clear, but apparently they’ve since fixed it. But (as I said earlier) I still can’t see why Newsweek should have known their article was going to set off riots. Their article contained allegations that had surfaced several times in the preceding 2+ years; the only thing new was the sourcing, and it’s hard to believe that people rioted in Afghanistan because the article was attributed to a U.S. official, rather than a Gitmo detainee. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/205 "2005-05-19T22:06:37Z")
**RTF:** _Their article contained allegations that had surfaced several times in the preceding 2+ years; the only thing new was the sourcing, and it’s hard to believe that people rioted in Afghanistan because the article was attributed to a U.S. official, rather than a Gitmo detainee._ Well, the commander of Combined Forces Command-Afghanistan apparently [disagrees](http://mediamatters.org/items/200505170003) that the _Newsweek_ article was responsible for the riots: > [@](#): > > As [Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman] Myers noted in a May 12 Department of Defense news briefing, according to Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, the commander of Combined Forces Command-Afghanistan, the violence “was not necessarily the result of the allegations about disrespect for the Quran” but was “more tied up in the political process and the reconciliation process that President [Hamid] Karzai and his Cabinet is conducting in Afghanistan.” Myers directly noted Eikenberry’s belief that the violence “was not at all tied to the article in the magazine.” And it’s not only former detainees who reported Qur’an desecration. A _New York Times_ article reported that a former Guantanamo **interrogator** had confirmed that Qur’an abuse in 2002 had provoked a detainee hunger strike followed by an [apology from a senior officer](http://rawstory.com/exclusives/newsweek_koran_report_516.htm): > [@](#): > > One such incident—during which the Koran allegedly was thrown in a pile and stepped on—prompted a hunger strike among Guantanamo detainees in Mar. 2002, which led to an apology. The New York Times interviewed former detainee Nasser Nijer Naser al-Mutairi May 1, who said the protest ended with a senior officer delivering an apology to the entire camp. > > “A former interrogator at Guantanamo, in an interview with the Times, confirmed the accounts of the hunger strikes, including the public expression of regret over the treatment of the Korans,” Times reporters Neil A. Lewis and Eric Schmitt wrote in “Inquiry Finds Abuses at Guantanamo Bay.” That sounds like a fairly weighty allegation to me, and AFAIK it was never denied or criticized by the Administration. What did _Newsweek_ say that was so much more provocative? I really can’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/206 "2005-05-20T05:13:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Maybe someone can clear that up for me. Who exactly said that the riots were specifically about the _Newsweek_ piece, and why are we compelled to take their word for it? There’s a fairly decent article in, um, Newsweek about this: > [@](#): > > **According to Newsweek, “How a Fire Broke Out”** : > By the end of the week, the rioting had spread from Afghanistan throughout much of the Muslim world, from Gaza to Indonesia. Mobs shouting “Protect our Holy Book!” burned down government buildings and ransacked the offices of relief organizations in several Afghan provinces… > > The spark was apparently lit at a press conference held on Friday, May 6, by Imran Khan, a Pakistani cricket legend and strident critic of Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf. Brandishing a copy of that week’s NEWSWEEK (dated May 9), Khan read a report that U.S. interrogators at Guantánamo prison had placed the Qur’an on toilet seats and even flushed one. “This is what the U.S. is doing,” exclaimed Khan, “desecrating the Qur’an.” His remarks, as well as the outraged comments of Muslim clerics and Pakistani government officials, were picked up on local radio and played throughout neighboring Afghanistan. Radical Islamic foes of the U.S.-friendly regime of Hamid Karzai quickly exploited local discontent with a poor economy and the continued presence of U.S. forces, and riots began breaking out last week. Newsweek also discusses how Karzai opponents were looking for a cause to coalesce around, and were henceforth obliged. I guess the next (gruesome) question might relate to how often protests in Afghanistan, etc. become deadly riots. Rather not follow up on that one though. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/207 "2005-05-20T07:19:01Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > …but we have been safe domestically for nearly four years now. One of the great things about cures for the common cold is that after about a week they always work. Every single time. Howbouthat, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/208 "2005-05-20T10:31:57Z")
Not only that, but under Clinton we were safe from foreign terrorism on our soil for a full **eight** years, which by **Evil One** ’s reasoning makes Clinton twice as good as Bush at fighting terrorism! That’s the problem with these attempts to deduce simple causality in very complex situations with lots of contributing factors: they can be employed equally well to support just about any conclusion you want. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/209 "2005-05-20T10:35:55Z")
> [@Newsweek](#): > > The spark was apparently lit at a press conference held on Friday, May 6, by Imran Khan, a Pakistani cricket legend and strident critic of Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf. Brandishing a copy of that week’s NEWSWEEK (dated May 9), Khan read a report that U.S. interrogators at Guantánamo prison had placed the Qur’an on toilet seats and even flushed one. If cricketer Imran Khan was involved in this—well, now I understand everything! No, I don’t really, but cricket stars are **very** important celebrities in Pakistan, and I can easily see how Khan’s complaining about this issue at a press conference could gain a lot of attention very rapidly. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2005, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/210 "2005-05-20T10:54:44Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If cricketer Imran Khan was involved in this—well, now I understand everything! No, I don’t really, but cricket stars are **very** important celebrities in Pakistan, and I can easily see how Khan’s complaining about this issue at a press conference could gain a lot of attention very rapidly. Thus further proving that celebrities should stay the hell out of politics. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951/211 "2005-05-22T01:49:06Z")
And the Red Cross knew about this, told the Pentagon, who blew the whole thing off. [http://www.theworldforum.org/story/2005/5/21/141128/255](http://www.theworldforum.org/story/2005/5/21/141128/255) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-to-start-a-holy-war-newsweek/303951.md?page=10)