# Way too long Bush Bashing SotU blow by blow
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 3, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136 "2005-02-03T06:30:53Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/121 "2005-02-05T21:26:34Z")
According to the _Boston Globe_, Bush wants to move education funding from loans to grants.
> [@](#):
>
> Bush wants to raise the maximum Pell Grant from $4,050 to $4,550 over five years – or $100 a year – and end a $4.3 billion deficit fueled by surging demand in recent years. His budget would make the yearly increases mandatory rather than leave them at the discretion of Congress.
>
> Overall, his financial aid plan would cost roughly $28 billion over 10 years, with $19 billion for the Pell Grants alone. The budget would raise loan limits from $2,625 to $3,500 for freshmen and $3,500 to $4,500 for sophomores. Those caps haven’t changed since 1986.
>
> To help pay for it all, Bush wants to shrink a range of subsidies that the government pays to banks to encourage them to make low-interest loans, and to the agencies that insure the loans for the lenders. The savings would pay for more than half of the financial aid overhaul, said Sally Stroup, assistant secretary for postsecondary education
It sounds like community college students might get screwed, but that there would be more money for higher education overall.
---
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/122 "2005-02-05T21:32:02Z")
Well, how about this for compassionate conservatism…
> **[Bush Budget Calls for Cuts in Health Services (Published 2005)](https://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/05/politics/bush-budget-calls-for-cuts-in-health-services.html)**
>
> Pres Bush's budget for 2006 cuts spending for wide range of public health programs, including several to protect nation against bioterrorist attacks and to respond to medical emergencies; cuts are part of attempt to control federal deficit, while...
> [@](#):
>
> …President Bush’s budget for 2006 cuts spending for a wide range of public health programs, including several to protect the nation against bioterrorist attacks and to respond to medical emergencies, budget documents show…
---
### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/123 "2005-02-05T22:50:51Z")
> [@milroyj](#):
>
> Why should we pay for your healthcare and/or education?
Because “we” also pay for “yours”?
Conservatives categorize the nation into “us” and “them.”
Liberals categorize the nation into “us”.
---
### Author:  [@Dancing\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancing_Dead)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/124 "2005-02-05T23:45:55Z")
> [@milroyj](#):
>
> Why should we pay for your healthcare and/or education?
Because, to people who operate with more intelligence than a squirrel, it is easily recognized that educating other people benefits all of us. Both in monetary terms and in terms of our societal obligations to each other.
I realize that you may not recognize such a thing as a societal obligation. Or anything outside of pure individualism. “Keep you hands off my stack.” Selfish, arrogant and fundamentally flawed. You must only hope that you never need the help of others in a case where you cannot afford it. I suppose that your ‘principles’ would mean you would have to deny any such help.
:wally
---
### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/125 "2005-02-05T23:55:07Z")
> [@Dancing Dead](#):
>
> Because, to people who operate with more intelligence than a squirrel, it is easily recognized that educating other people benefits all of us. Both in monetary terms and in terms of our societal obligations to each other.
>
> I realize that you may not recognize such a thing as a societal obligation. Or anything outside of pure individualism. “Keep you hands off my stack.” Selfish, arrogant and fundamentally flawed. You must only hope that you never need the help of others in a case where you cannot afford it. I suppose that your ‘principles’ would mean you would have to deny any such help.
>
> :wally
**milroyj’s** mantra is me me me.
He has no societal principals. There is only one class of people to him. Those who made it.
Except for Duhbya of course. He didn’t make it. It was handed to him. Why he worships him is beyond me.
---
### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/126 "2005-02-06T00:27:39Z")
> [@Dancing Dead](#):
>
> You must only hope that you never need the help of others in a case where you cannot afford it. I suppose that your ‘principles’ would mean you would have to deny any such help.
When I was working three jobs and eating Ramen three meals a day and walking everywhere because I couldn’t afford to put gas in my large pile of rust disguised as a car and buying textbooks with large swatches of yellow in them from previous owners… who was there to help me?
Me. No one else. Just me.
Now tell me why I am obligated to pay your lazy-ass way. Explain why I had to scrimp, save, starve, and be miserable, but you deserve a free ride. Use simple words; I am, after all, on par with that squirrel.
---
### Author:  [@Dancing\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancing_Dead)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/127 "2005-02-06T00:40:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Now tell me why I am obligated to pay your lazy-ass way. Explain why I had to scrimp, save, starve, and be miserable, but you deserve a free ride. Use simple words; I am, after all, on par with that squirrel.
I resent your implication that I’m a lazyass. I work more than one job just to survive, I pay taxes, and I still can’t afford health insurance, even though I live cheaply. Not everything my taxes go for are things I support. That’s just a consequence of the social contract.
If you can’t see that providing with people who wish it with a college education benefits society (and you) in a way that far outstrips the monetary cost of providing that education, then perhaps I overstated the case by suggesting that you’re not as smart as a squirrel. Apparently, I have inadvertentedly been unkind to squirrels with my analogy.
Most of us who support socialized healthcare and socialized education are not hippie bums. We simply A: give a damn about other people more than cash, and B: see the enormous benefits that our society as a whole gains by having a healthy and well-educated populace.
My SO has a serious health problem that she cannot get treatment for because we cannot afford the surgery and medication. Even if we had medical insurance, we still would probably not be able to afford it. We both work very long hours…in fact, she was working three jobs until health problems forced her to scale back her hours. I don’t think we’re an isolated case, although anecdotal evidence isn’t data.
Obviously, people like us are a drain on your resources and would be better off simply allowing the medical problems to take their course. Then we wouldn’t be a drain anymore, would we? I call you heartless, soulless, and a prime example of all that is inhuman with unrestrained capitalism.
It hurts me deeply to see a person I love in constant pain and be unable, due only to a lack of financial resources, to do anything about it. Hence, fuck you and all your ilk.
---
### Author:  [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/128 "2005-02-06T00:40:28Z")
Huh? You had a scholarship buddy not to mention you went to a state supported school.
Also you did read the part about how your 3 jobs would have to be 4.5-5 jobs if you did it today didn’t you?
---
### Author:  [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/129 "2005-02-06T00:42:33Z")
That post of course was meant for Bricker.
---
### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/130 "2005-02-06T00:45:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> When I was working three jobs and eating Ramen three meals a day and walking everywhere because I couldn’t afford to put gas in my large pile of rust disguised as a car and buying textbooks with large swatches of yellow in them from previous owners… who was there to help me?
>
> Me. No one else. Just me.
>
> Now tell me why I am obligated to pay your lazy-ass way. Explain why I had to scrimp, save, starve, and be miserable, but you deserve a free ride. Use simple words; I am, after all, on par with that squirrel.
Fuck you asshole.
Many people work hard to do their jobs. Not everyone can be a fancypants , get rich on the pain of others, ambulance chaser like you are.
---
### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/131 "2005-02-06T01:20:25Z")
Thats me, a big lazy ass. I just laze around all day. Laze laze laze. Just waiting for everyone to start paying for college and health insurance. Not a care in the world. Aint it great to be a liberal?
---
### Author:  [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/132 "2005-02-06T01:20:52Z")
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> Fuck you asshole.
>
> Many people work hard to do their jobs. Not everyone can be a fancypants , get rich on the pain of others, ambulance chaser like you are.
You’re an idiot– **Bricker** isn’t a trial lawyer. Not all lawyers make money from lawsuits, like, say John Edwards.
---
### Author:  [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/133 "2005-02-06T01:22:43Z")
> [@even sven](#):
>
> Thats me, a big lazy ass. I just laze around all day. Laze laze laze. Just waiting for everyone to start paying for college and health insurance. Not a care in the world. Aint it great to be a liberal?
Hey, acknowledging that you have a problem is the first step toward recovery.
---
### Author:  [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/134 "2005-02-06T01:32:24Z")
> [@rjung](#):
>
> Because “we” also pay for “yours”?
No, “you” have not paid a red penny for my healthcare. I pay for it myself. Sort of like how **Bricker** pays for his family’s healthcare. Imagine that, paying your own way. Is that such a difficult concept?
---
### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/135 "2005-02-06T01:36:26Z")
> [@gobear](#):
>
> You’re an idiot– **Bricker** isn’t a trial lawyer. Not all lawyers make money from lawsuits, like, say John Edwards.
You trust whats said buy someone like bricker?
Cool.
As for Edwards…lets look at the white house’s hand picked man for the Florida senate.
[Mel Martinez](http://www.sptimes.com/2004/08/11/State/Rival_pans_Martinez_s.shtml)
Now bitch about Edwards asshole.
---
### Author:  [@Dancing\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancing_Dead)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/136 "2005-02-06T01:38:08Z")
> [@milroyj](#):
>
> No, “you” have not paid a red penny for my healthcare. I pay for it myself. Sort of like how **Bricker** pays for his family’s healthcare. Imagine that, paying your own way. Is that such a difficult concept?
So, what you are saying, in effect, is that those who cannot afford it should just be allowed to be sick or die. Nice stuff. Very compassionate of you.
Asshole
---
### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/137 "2005-02-06T01:41:00Z")
> [@Dancing Dead](#):
>
> So, what you are saying, in effect, is that those who cannot afford it should just be allowed to be sick or die. Nice stuff. Very compassionate of you.
>
> Asshole
Agreed.
---
### Author:  [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/138 "2005-02-06T01:44:39Z")
> [@Reeder](#):
>
> You trust whats said buy someone like bricker?
>
> Cool.
>
> As for Edwards…lets look at the white house’s hand picked man for the Florida senate.
>
> [Mel Martinez](http://www.sptimes.com/2004/08/11/State/Rival_pans_Martinez_s.shtml)
>
> Now bitch about Edwards asshole.
I’ve met **Bricker** and I know where he works and what he does. You don’t. and I’m not bitching about Edwards–I voted for him and Kerry. I was making an ironic point. The thing is you don’t have any arguments for your POV, just insults. There’s a strong case to be made for single-payer health insurance that would cover every citizen, but you, **Even Sven** and the other lefties aren’t doing it very well.
OTOH, **Bricker** and **Milroy** need to learn the value of sharing and of health care for the indigent as a value for society as a whole.
---
### Author:  [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/139 "2005-02-06T01:45:59Z")
> [@Dancing Dead](#):
>
> So, what you are saying, in effect, is that those who cannot afford it should just be allowed to be sick or die.
C’mon guys, help me out. What’s the fancy Latin name for whichever fallacy **Dancing Dead** just spouted?
---
### Author:  [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136/140 "2005-02-06T01:48:10Z")
Don’t let people starve in the streets and give them adequate health care. Is that such a difficult concept?
Bricker can claim that since he made his way through college everyone else should be able to. He just happens to ignore that he had a scholarship, went to a state supported school and paid significantly less in a time when the minimum wage was significantly higher. If for some reason you can’t manage to do it then by default you must be lazy. Happily ignoring our blatantly unfair k-12 educational system. Shit he made it out so can they. The 90% that don’t make it are just lazy bums and deserve to die from an easily curable disease.
What do you say to Dancing Dead’s situation? Is he a bum? He and his SO have college degrees and work multiple jobs but still can’t afford health care. Tough luck for them she gets to live in pain but hey life isn’t fair. I can’t accept that. How can you look at a system that allows people to make millions by stockpiling medicine before a price increase while others can’t get basic health care and say welp life ain’t fair enjoy dying sucka.
And on preview:
What exactly are you arguing for? If you think everyone should pay for their health care than it follows that if you can’t pay for it you don’t get it.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136.md?page=6)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/way-too-long-bush-bashing-sotu-blow-by-blow/288136.md?page=8)