# Ways to Curtail Gun Crime **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885 "2008-12-05T17:39:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/41 "2008-12-08T12:57:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In any event, if we want to reduce gun crime (which, while not all violent crime, is a particularly lethal component of it), it seems to me that the first step would be to take a good look at the rest of the free world (western Europe, Australia, Japan, etc.), and figure out what they’re doing right that we’re not. Japan has seen a disturbing rise in gun-related crime recently, with gun-related deaths in 2007 rising an incredible\* 11-fold over 2006 2006 shootings: 53 2007 shootings: 66 2006 shooting deaths: 2 2007 shooting deaths: 22 [cite](http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUST252568) One inaccuracy in the article: Firearms are not only in the hands of hunters and yakuza. The police are also armed. \*deliberately tongue-in-cheek ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/42 "2008-12-08T15:09:25Z")
Britain shares some of the same urban social woes as the US. Poverty? Check. Ethnic underclasses more likely to be poor? Check. Illegal narcotics? Check. Urban decay? Check. So, how does gang crime manifest itself in Britain if guns are rare? Are guns more common with mid-level narcotics trafficers than the street level dealers? Do gangs settle for dispatching rivals with knives or beatings? Are street robberies done by other means than holdups at gun point? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/43 "2008-12-09T00:09:44Z")
Line up every criminal with a hand gun we can catch and then unload all their guns; every law abiding person with a gun gets a free shot. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/44 "2008-12-09T01:27:01Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > Japan has seen a disturbing rise in gun-related crime recently, with gun-related deaths in 2007 rising an incredible\* 11-fold over 2006 > > 2006 shootings: 53 > 2007 shootings: 66 > > 2006 shooting deaths: 2 > 2007 shooting deaths: 22 And yet shootings increased only 25% It looks like someone is teaching the Japanese how to shoot more accurately. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/45 "2008-12-09T02:13:17Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Britain shares some of the same urban social woes as the US. Poverty? Check. Ethnic underclasses more likely to be poor? Check. Illegal narcotics? Check. Urban decay? Check. So, how does gang crime manifest itself in Britain if guns are rare? Are guns more common with mid-level narcotics trafficers than the street level dealers? Do gangs settle for dispatching rivals with knives or beatings? Are street robberies done by other means than holdups at gun point? FWIW, England leads the US in violent crime - yet the [homicide rate](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate) in the US is rmuch higher than England’s - about 5.7 to 2.03 per 100K. So yeah, just as many beatings and fights and muggings if not more, but many fewer of them end in deaths. And Japan is way down there. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/46 "2008-12-09T02:59:54Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > FWIW, England leads the US in violent crime - yet the [homicide rate](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate) in the US is rmuch higher than England’s - about 5.7 to 2.03 per 100K. So yeah, just as many beatings and fights and muggings if not more, but many fewer of them end in deaths. Ok; so why **don’t** gang members, drug dealers and professional muggers acquire some illegal guns? How are drug turfs enforced? Sure there’s not the huge supply of both legal and stolen guns that the US has, but I refuse to believe that you can buy heroin on the street but not a gun. Does Britain have draconian penalties for gun possession? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/47 "2008-12-09T05:54:19Z")
[Minimim is 5 years](http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/press-releases/Crime_Remains_Stable_-_New_Five_?version=1) for possession. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/48 "2008-12-09T06:19:36Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Stop the War on Some Drugs. Legalize those drugs and make them cheaply available through the same channels as legal intoxicants. No black market = no gangs shooting it out over drug territory. We already have legal drugs (alcohol) and making a drug legal will not remove it from the black market. . People who are addicted to drugs and commit crimes over them will continue to do so regardless of the legality of the drug. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/49 "2008-12-09T08:35:15Z")
What Algher said. Lock up criminals, let the law abiding carry. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/50 "2008-12-09T14:48:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > We already have legal drugs (alcohol) and making a drug legal will not remove it from the black market. . People who are addicted to drugs and commit crimes over them will continue to do so regardless of the legality of the drug. Moonshiners still exist, to be sure. Please be kind enough, though, to link me to any recent news articles about moonshiners shooting it out over distribution territory. The crimes committed by addicts are largely thefts and burglaries; we are discussing specifically the reduction of crimes involving guns. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/51 "2008-12-09T15:10:13Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Ok; so why **don’t** gang members, drug dealers and professional muggers acquire some illegal guns? How are drug turfs enforced? Sure there’s not the huge supply of both legal and stolen guns that the US has, but I refuse to believe that you can buy heroin on the street but not a gun. Does Britain have draconian penalties for gun possession? Real guns are hard to obtain in the UK. Your gun-toting gang-banger is more likely to be armed with a converted replica or a reactivated thing with a new drilled barrel. An Eastern European converted Starter Pistol is also a popular import. [Gun crime in the UK: Official Figures](http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/gun-crime/) > [@](#): > > Facts & figures > > ``` > * The number of overall offences involving firearms fell by 13% in 2006/07 compared to the previous year. > * Firearms were involved in 566 serious or fatal injuries in 2006/07, compared to 645 the previous year - a drop of 12%. > * The number of armed robberies involving guns dropped by 3% > * There were 13% fewer serious and fatal injuries related to gun crimes in 2006/07. > * The number of reported crimes involving imitation guns dropped by 15% in 2006/07. > * The number of reported crimes involving air guns dropped by 15% in 2006/07 over 2005/06. > > ``` [Who Supplies the guns?](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6937457.stm) > [@](#): > > One increasingly popular route is to buy blank-firing guns on the continent and import them before converting them into deadly weapons. > > In November last year three men were given long jail sentences after being convicted of smuggling 274 replica guns from Germany, which were converted in a Manchester workshop. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/52 "2008-12-09T15:26:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Because someone’s much more likely to attempt to shoot me with a gun than to attempt any of those things, and if someone does attempt those other things, I have a much greater chance of survival than with the gun. Most people survive being shot. (As an aside, according to [this](http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/kdowst/kleck.html)report, most gun-related deaths are suicides, not homicides. > [@Gary Kleck](#): > > In 1985, about 31,600 persons were killed with guns, and perhaps another 130,000 people suffered nonfatal gunshot wounds. The majority of the deaths, 55%, were suicides, rather than criminal homicides. Only 37% were homicides, 5% were fatal gun accidents, and 1.5% each were due to legal intervention (police officers killing suspects in the line of duty) and to death where it was undetermined whether injury was intentionally or accidentally inflicted. Among all deaths due to “external cause,” i.e. accident, suicide or homicide, guns were involved in 22% of them, handguns in about 13% of them. The majority of all gun deaths involve handguns, mainly because 79% of the gun homicide deaths involved handguns. Guns were involved in 1.5% of all deaths, from all causes, in 1985. They were involved in 59% of suicides, 60% of homicides, and 1.8% of accidental deaths in 1985. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/53 "2008-12-09T21:07:44Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Moonshiners still exist, to be sure. Please be kind enough, though, to link me to any recent news articles about moonshiners shooting it out over distribution territory. > The crimes committed by addicts are largely thefts and burglaries; we are discussing specifically the reduction of crimes involving guns. We have a fair number of drug related shootings in my city. Not sure what the driving force is but I’m guessing it involves a “moonshiner” in some respect. I don’t know if it’s an addict looking to steal from a dealer or just a general thief but there certainly seems to be a a lot of gun violence involving drugs. We’ll never make all drugs legal because of the destructive nature of them. It’s strictly my opinion but if drugs like marijuana were legalized I still think you’d have unregulated sales of the drug and the violence that follows because of the money involved. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885/54 "2008-12-10T01:23:23Z")
Yeah…just look at the heaps of corpses from the gangs shooting it out over alcohol and tobacco territories. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ways-to-curtail-gun-crime/475885.md?page=2)