# We are becoming too pro-military in the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 29, 2006, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-becoming-too-pro-military-in-the-us/358602 "2006-05-29T06:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-becoming-too-pro-military-in-the-us/358602/101 "2006-06-03T04:03:26Z")
> [@](#): > > It also makes them bad soldiers, given that someone who wants to fight is precisely the sort who’ll start one. Except that they don’t. Unless you want to qualify that statement a bit, we’re right back where we started. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-becoming-too-pro-military-in-the-us/358602/102 "2006-06-03T05:05:09Z")
[QUOTE=bluethree] In your worldview, isn’t the phrase “bad soldiers” a redundancy? [/QUOTE] So you feel an opposition to wars of conquest, rape, and torture = blanket opposition to the military ? I oppose and despise the _American_ military _right now_ because of what they are doing, not because they are military. [QUOTE=kawaiitentaclebeast] Except that they don’t. Unless you want to qualify that statement a bit, we’re right back where we started. 🙂 [/QUOTE] So you think random unjustified killing, not to mention rape and torture _won’t_ start a fight with our victims ? Let me tell you a secret : Most people in the world do not consider the fact that it’s _Americans_ doing something automatically justfies it. You drag some guy out of his house and torture him to death, or shoot him because he got out of his car, or walked within a hundred feet of you - his friends and family _will_ hate us for it. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-becoming-too-pro-military-in-the-us/358602/103 "2006-06-03T05:21:04Z")
Not to mention that if someone “occupied” my home country and ran up into my place in the middle of the night, I’d sure as hell put up a fight. Apparently, it’s all about your point of reference. ---
**Author:** ![Dubious\_Weasle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b782af/32.png) [@Dubious\_Weasle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dubious_Weasle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-becoming-too-pro-military-in-the-us/358602/104 "2006-06-03T05:45:57Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] I oppose and despise the _American_ military _right now_ because of what they are doing, not because they are military. [/QUOTE] What they are doing is exactly what the American people via their government have ordered them to do. At least put your venom in the right place. Second in regards to.. > [@](#): > > It also makes them bad soldiers, given that someone who wants to fight is precisely the sort who’ll start one. Yes, there are many members of the military who eagerly await war and the chance to use the skills they’ve been taught. They are of course idiots. There are a lot of idiots in the world though so it’s not really a military thing. The main point though is that no matter how much individual service members _might_ want to fight a war… **They don’t get to choose**. \*\* The military does not pick when and where they fight.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-becoming-too-pro-military-in-the-us/358602/105 "2006-06-03T08:28:20Z")
[QUOTE=Dubious Weasle] The main point though is that no matter how much individual service members _might_ want to fight a war… **They don’t get to choose**. [/QUOTE] Of course they have a choice. They can refuse to fight and go to jail or whatever the military does these days. They can desert. They can shoot themselves. Extreme ? So’s killing innocent people for a monster like Bush. _I’d_ kill myself before I killed people for Bush. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-becoming-too-pro-military-in-the-us/358602/106 "2006-06-04T14:03:45Z")
[QUOTE=kawaiitentaclebeast] Of course it’s relevent, I’ve explained how it is, but I can’t force you to listen now, can I. Most soldiers I’ve met would disagree with you. What do you make of that? [/QUOTE] I would say that A) I simply don’t believe you. I was a soldier, have been around soldiers all my life, and never met a single one insane enough to say “You know, I would much rather have war break out and me be sent off to fight and possibly die than to have peace prevail.” We used to pray for peace at our mess dinners. My grandfathers, both veterans of war, expressed fervent hope that I would never be sent into battle. I have seen, heard, and read of soldier after soldier saying that war is hell and hoping young men would not have to be sent into it. I suppose you may personally know a few psychos, but they’re not representative of most soldiers, who are sane. B) You have not, in fact, explained WHY someone is better off being sent to experience the horrors of war than not. Probably because it’s a really stupid thing to try to defend. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-becoming-too-pro-military-in-the-us/358602/107 "2006-06-04T15:15:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I was a soldier, have been around soldiers all my life, and never met a single one insane enough to say “You know, I would much rather have war break out and me be sent off to fight and possibly die than to have peace prevail.” We used to pray for peace at our mess dinners. My grandfathers, both veterans of war, expressed fervent hope that I would never be sent into battle. I have seen, heard, and read of soldier after soldier saying that war is hell and hoping young men would not have to be sent into it. I suppose you may personally know a few psychos, but they’re not representative of most soldiers, who are sane. Another day in the Corps, Sir, For every day’s a holiday And every meal’s a feast Pray for war Pray for war God bless the Marine Corps Pray for war God bless the DI of 353 [Drill Instructor and group number] Pray for war. -Vietnam era basic training chant [from [here](http://www.patiencepress.com/samples/rfwch1.pdf)] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-becoming-too-pro-military-in-the-us/358602.md?page=5)