# We are currently bombing Syria. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292 "2014-09-23T02:13:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/61 "2014-09-24T16:01:41Z")
The heck with the whole region cooperating - what happens in Syria if ISIS is gone? What becomes of Iraq? Aren’t those conditions likely to create a future ISIS-type problem down the line? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/62 "2014-09-24T16:05:17Z")
I’m speculating out my arse but… Who gives a damn if we can get the regional powers to manage this problem themselves and leave the west out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/63 "2014-09-24T16:09:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Reports indicate they’ve already began to disperse into the general population. How come when ISIL disperses into the population, it is taken as an indication that they are still a potent threat; but when the Iraqi army disperses, it is an indication that they are broken and defeated? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/64 "2014-09-24T16:12:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > How come when ISIL disperses into the population, it is taken as an indication that they are still a potent threat; but when the Iraqi army disperses, it is an indication that they are broken and defeated? The Iraqi army isn’t a threat to anyone. Clearly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/65 "2014-09-24T16:14:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Who gives a damn if we can get the regional powers to manage this problem themselves and leave the west out of it. Because if they can’t manage it themselves, there’s a fairly good chance that sooner or later it turns into a problem for the West. That’s been the general pattern for a while now. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/66 "2014-09-24T16:20:39Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This type of bombing has rapidly diminishing returns. ISIS will quickly setup operations in crowded neighborhoods and next to Mosques. Places we can’t bomb without massive outcry over the civilian damage. Well, that’s when we let the Syrian’s take care of it, since they have no issues bombing the crap out of civilian areas (and civilians, full stop), and since there won’t be any sort of massive outcry from either the media or the (western) public over it. Hell, we seem to be fine with Assad et al doing whatever, including the use of poison gas, based on the lack of such outcries and the number of posters on this board and elsewhere who think having Assad in power gives the region stability or something. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/67 "2014-09-24T16:23:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because if they can’t manage it themselves, there’s a fairly good chance that sooner or later it turns into a problem for the West. That’s been the general pattern for a while now. For sure. But there is a nascent coalition now. If it manages by some miracle to even appear effective, other players like Egypt and Iran might join. IF that happens, perhaps something good can come of it after all? I realize that’s a giant IF. But I feel like that’s what this administration is hoping will happen and it’s come closer than any recent administration accomplised to date. So they feel they gotta try. Worse case scenario, the US resorts to a protracted drone warfare. Something they’ve become reasonably good at and generally comfortable conducting with minimal risk/involvement of US troops. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/68 "2014-09-24T16:23:41Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In all the various ways in which the US failed to form an effective Iraqi or Afghan army to allow the respective countries to defend themselves Was that ever possible? Was the sense of nationhood in either place ever as strong as tribalism, or enough to make significant numbers of young men risk their lives for it? I’m not seeing it. The strength of ISIL, and the ease with which its members can slip back into the community, suggests that at least a large percentage, maybe the majority, support them, at least more than they support other power centers such as their local dictators or foreign/infidel invaders. It’s going to be difficult but necessary to limit attacks to targets representing actual threats to the outside or to peace in general, but at some point in the future it may be necessary to reach some sort of accommodation. It’s disgusting, sure, that we might now have to support Assad, like we supported Saddam throughout the no-fly-zone period, in the causes of _humanitarianism and peace_. But that’s what it looks like now. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/69 "2014-09-24T16:28:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Was that ever possible? Was the sense of nationhood in either place ever as strong as tribalism, or enough to make significant numbers of young men risk their lives for it? I’m not seeing it. No. It was never possible. The last administration assumed nation building like this was possible but it’s one of the mistakes that I mentioned that the US has made in the past. To their credit, they are now building a coalition of established nations, instead of relying on a rag-tag Iraqi or Afghan army with tribal alliances that trump any possible national interests. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/70 "2014-09-24T16:31:50Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > To their credit, they are now building a coalition of established nations, instead of relying on a rag-tag Iraqi or Afghan army with tribal alliances that trump any possible national interests. The “coalition” is a fiction, and I am amazed that posters on this board actually take it in any way seriously. It is a formality, a permission by the countries in the list for the US to use their names in the propaganda, and a token one- or two-plane contribution to the attacks. The countries in the “coalition” have neither the will NOR the ability to actually do anything substantial. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/71 "2014-09-24T16:33:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s disgusting, sure, that we might now have to support Assad, like we supported Saddam throughout the no-fly-zone period, in the causes of _humanitarianism and peace_. But that’s what it looks like now. I understand the general point you’re making, but the sanctions on Iraq and no-fly zones as “support” for Saddam is just plain bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/72 "2014-09-24T16:36:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The “coalition” is a fiction, and I am amazed that posters on this board actually take it in any way seriously. It is a formality, a permission by the countries in the list for the US to use their names in the propaganda, and a token one- or two-plane contribution to the attacks. The countries in the “coalition” have neither the will NOR the ability to actually do anything substantial. Considering that the purpose of such a coalition is to present an image of regional cooperation, the “real” contributions of each country listed are far less important then the fact that they are willing to be counted as members of the coalition. And considering the vastly disparate capabilities of the US and Middle Eastern militaries (besides Israel), this is probably the only sort of regional coalition that ever could exist. _Of course_ the coalition exists for political reason. That’s why such coalitions are formed! And they’re entirely necessary in cases like this, whether this particular entanglement is wise or not. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/73 "2014-09-24T16:41:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Considering that the purpose of such a coalition is to present an image of regional cooperation, the “real” contributions of each country listed are far less important then the fact that they are willing to be counted as members of the coalition. > > And considering the vastly disparate capabilities of the US and Middle Eastern militaries (besides Israel), this is probably the only sort of regional coalition that ever could exist. > > _Of course_ the coalition exists for political reason. That’s why such coalitions are formed! And they’re entirely necessary in cases like this, whether this particular entanglement is wise or not. **QuickSilver** , in the post that I responded to, contrasted this “coalition” with “rag-tag Iraqi or Afghan army”. When the purpose/reason of the coalition is strictly political, how “rag-tag” (I presume the reference is to the capability) the coalition partner is is completely irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/74 "2014-09-24T16:41:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Considering that the purpose of such a coalition is to present an image of regional cooperation, the “real” contributions of each country listed are far less important then the fact that they are willing to be counted as members of the coalition. > > And considering the vastly disparate capabilities of the US and Middle Eastern militaries (besides Israel), this is probably the only sort of regional coalition that ever could exist. > > _Of course_ the coalition exists for political reason. That’s why such coalitions are formed! And they’re entirely necessary in cases like this, whether this particular entanglement is wise or not. Surprised this needed to be pointed out, but there you go. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/75 "2014-09-24T16:44:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > **QuickSilver** , in the post that I responded to, contrasted this “coalition” with “rag-tag Iraqi or Afghan army”. > > When the purpose/reason of the coalition is strictly political, how “rag-tag” (I presume the reference is to the capability) the coalition partner is is completely irrelevant. Iraqis have proven themselves to be ineffective at best (and coward at worst). The coalition countries do not wear the same stigma, at least for the moment. As such, they may garner more respect among their regional peers. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/76 "2014-09-24T16:45:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > **QuickSilver** , in the post that I responded to, contrasted this “coalition” with “rag-tag Iraqi or Afghan army”. > > When the purpose/reason of the coalition is strictly political, how “rag-tag” (I presume the reference is to the capability) the coalition partner is is completely irrelevant. The Iraqi and Afghan armies were “rag-tag” both politically as well as materially – they were not united and they had virtually no international legitimacy. On the other hand, our wise and wonderful coalition partners in this circumstance are, generally, both united and possessing of international legitimacy. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/77 "2014-09-24T16:48:40Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Iraqis have proven themselves to be ineffective at best (and coward at worst). The coalition countries do not wear the same stigma, at least for the moment. As such, they may garner more respect among their regional peers. Again, since the “coalition” countries are not in any way significantly contributing anything but their name to the joint effort, how exactly is their effectiveness or cowardliness relevant? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/78 "2014-09-24T17:00:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, since the “coalition” countries are not in any way significantly contributing anything but their name to the joint effort, how exactly is their effectiveness or cowardliness relevant? While the US is doing most of the heavy lifting, the coalition countries participation is more than just symbolic: > [@CNN](#): > > The United Arab Emirates, which has been one of the United States’ strongest partners in the fight against ISIS, confirmed its participation in the “international effort against the ISIL,” another acronym for ISIS. > And in its statement, the UAE foreign ministry left the door open to further military strikes, noting that its air force “launched its first strikes against ISIL.” > Bahrain and Jordan also confirmed that their air forces struck terrorist targets inside Syria, with Jordan also saying it would strike again if fighting spills over into Jordan, as it has in recent months. > Saudi Arabia’s official press agency confirmed the country’s role in “military operations in Syria.” > Qatar has yet to put out a statement on its role in the strikes, but a senior U.S. military official has told CNN’s Jim Sciutto that Qatar did not drop bombs in Syria. > Even if acting only in a support role, its public involvement in the military campaign is a symbolic move that could have big implications. [full Article from CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/politics/arab-coalition-striking-syria-now-willing/). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/79 "2014-09-24T17:02:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > While the US is doing most of the heavy lifting, the coalition countries participation is more than just symbolic: A couple of token planes are “just symbolic”. Even the “rag tag” Iraqi army could manage that just as well. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292/80 "2014-09-24T17:07:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > A couple of token planes are “just symbolic”. Even the “rag tag” Iraqi army could manage that just as well. No, because such symbols, to be effective, require international legitimacy, political unity, and the like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-currently-bombing-syria/699292.md?page=5)