# We are happy \[the Space Shuttle\] broke up." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148 "2003-02-01T19:45:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/181 "2003-02-02T11:02:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by techchick68 \* > **I am as pissed off about the US government as you are, at least I have real reasons and I have values that you don’t apparently have, yours are very thinly veiled in policy issues that don’t mean squat to the normal American…You need a class in the American economy to understand what the average American, low income, goes through on a daily basis.** So, because **mswas** isn’t in financial dire straits like you are, his disagreement with the current Administration is somehow less valid or worthy than yours. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/182 "2003-02-02T11:11:09Z")
Coldfire: To make it even more amusing, I am in the same financial straits that she is. I live in the ghetto in Brooklyn, and have no health insurance. However I am self-employed so I know what exactly gets taxed and what doesn’t. In all reality I am probably not going to have to pay much if anything in taxes because I have about 50% of my income in claimable expenses. I never had to pay 37% though. Not even when I was making $ 40,000 a year and HAD medical/dental/401k However, you must realize that everyone’s opinion is more grounded in reality than everybody else’s, just ask them. So techchick, what you’re saying is that my fear of increased terrorist attacks as a direct result of current American policy is not a real reason for my opinions, whereas your being fleeced on taxes is a real reason. Well, in Colorado Springs they may fleece you on taxes, but here in New York, we actually get attacked by terrorists and I’d like to avoid that if at all possible. Erek ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/183 "2003-02-02T11:11:38Z")
**Coldy** , Understand me here. He is stating that the low income person is not putting into the government like the middle-class or the upper-class are, apparently. This is my general feeling from reading his posts. With this thinking, he is putting a huge amount of US citizens on the level of sheeps or less-than people that should have a say. He’s also mis-calculating the actual amount of tax that people pay here in the States. I am one that income tax should be constricted based on individual needs, I am going to end up breaking the law tomorrow because my car insurance is to lapse. I don’t believe in income tax as a program but it’s a reality but I sure as hell disagree with his thinking. Hell yes, I am one that could use the 37% of income that’s taken from me and I don’t agree with my government for it. I haven’t been vocal about it until now because of this thread and because of what **mswas** has said. So many untruths as I see view it as a self-employed, single woman. He offers no remedy’s but is sure quick on the punch to talk falacies and bullshit to try to make a weak, at best, point towards the feeling of those in other countries and why they feel that way. If he is so in the know, then I suggest to him to leave the US and be a true missionary in a place like Afghanistan, South Africa or in Columbia…holy shit, speak up or get out… ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/184 "2003-02-02T11:15:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by techchick68 \* > \*\*Coldy, > > Understand me here. He is stating that the low income person is not putting into the government like the middle-class or the upper-class are, apparently. This is my general feeling from reading his posts.\*\* Then I humbly suggest your radar’s a tad off - it’s not the impression I got from his posts at _all_. And what the hell are sheeps? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/185 "2003-02-02T11:17:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mswas \* > So techchick, what you’re saying is that my fear of increased terrorist attacks as a direct result of current American policy is not a real reason for my opinions, whereas your being fleeced on taxes is a real reason. Well, in Colorado Springs they may fleece you on taxes, but here in New York, we actually get attacked by terrorists and I’d like to avoid that if at all possible. > > Erek So you are FINALLY agreeing to the fact the NYC was attacked and if I can read behind the lines, it was an evil act God Forbid you actually admit that though…Lord have mercy on your soul, this is probably the most profound thing you have brought up in this thread. Rather than denying it, shoving it off to some foreign entity, you ADMIT it happened. C Springs doesn’t have an income tax, the state and the federals do. Seriously, go to your payroll and ask how much is actually taken out of your income per month. Do a calculation, assuming you are single and see how close that is to 37%. ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/186 "2003-02-02T11:23:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by mswas_ > > Not to mention that most radically poor people don’t pay a whole lot in taxes. Every time I’ve made less than 25,000 a year I got a shitload of my money back every year. **Coldy** , He states he got a shitload of money, while my comparison was off, it’s not that far off considering what I stated in my post and the fact I have to dip into about 37% of my income each year…I am getting tired and the more and more I discuss this, the more and more I am not making sense. But essentially, he’s saying (me putting words in his mouth) the poor American is better of despite taxes and should be thankful…but that’s how I read it. I know what I am thinking but I am having trouble expressing it at the moment. I will be back later after a good night’s sleep. ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/187 "2003-02-02T11:26:23Z")
I forgot…one last tidbit before bed. Sheeps are those that blindly follow to the slaughter. Night Night. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/188 "2003-02-02T11:27:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by techchick68 \* > **I could much use my “taxes” to feed me and my animals but you see I owe taxes every damn year that goes to some Egyptian or Columbian or Mexican when I am eating shit for food. Shit that makes me fat and I am fat now…I can’t afford decent food because of the fucking taxes taking from me.** Are fresh vegetables expensive, then? > [@](#): > > \*\*Forget about the poor trailer stuck woman with three kids and her husband left and she can’t even afford Childrens Tylenol for the flu…you really turned my opinion to your side. :rolleyes: \*\* Sounds like an ad for a National Health Service (funded by taxes, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/189 "2003-02-02T11:31:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by techchick68 \* > **I am getting tired and the more and more I discuss this, the more and more I am not making sense.** I have to agree there. Motion to go to bed seconded. Other than that, mswas already stated he was self-employed too, so I see no reason why his statements about income taxations are less valid than yours. I’d say you both live in different states, and leave it at that. To top it off, you BOTH should stop bitching, since my marginal tax rate is 50%, and will be 60% if my income rises a tad more. But then, that’s what you get for living in a pinko country like mine. Of course, we DO have a working health care system, significantly less crime, a functioning social security, and legal weed. But it’s still 60%, dammit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/190 "2003-02-02T11:34:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > Are fresh vegetables expensive, then? Yes, very, especially since I live in a landlocked state that is going through a serious drought that doesn’t seem to want to let up this year. Even the ranchers are having to sell off many cattle because they can’t afford the hay to feed all their heads. Hay is damn expensive so meat is going up…shit many farmers are questioning whether or not to plant this spring, the winter wheat is non-existant here. Read through that and tell me why things are expensive here. Last year it wasn’t that bad in our consumer view, this year, a different story. I would kill for fresh veggies every night on my plate. Holy crap I am really off to bed. I am pooped out, bigtime. ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/191 "2003-02-02T11:39:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > , and legal weed. But it’s still 60%, dammit. 😉 Shit for legal weed I would be more than happy to spend 50% of my income on taxes…that and a pint of Guiness that isn’t taxed. 😉 But Guiness isn’t your brew. BTW **Coldy** , we have a lot of hidden taxes that can’t be easily calculated from state and local sales tax to the various Fed government taxes so I think if you quantify that, it’s pretty close to what you pay out each year, I would gather closer to the 50% you state. It really depends on where you live in the States. Good God techchick, would you just fucking go to bed already. SHIT. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/192 "2003-02-02T12:00:34Z")
Guinness is too my brew! It just isn’t brewed in my country, but we get excellent supplies from the Dublin and London facilities. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/193 "2003-02-02T12:26:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by techchick68 \* > \*\*BTW **Coldy** , we have a lot of hidden taxes that can’t be easily calculated from state and local sales tax to the various Fed government taxes so I think if you quantify that, it’s pretty close to what you pay out each year, I would gather closer to the 50% you state. > > It really depends on where you live in the States.\*\* I’m speaking for **Coldie** here, so he should perhaps correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he means 50% - 60% _on top_ of sales tax. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/194 "2003-02-02T12:54:00Z")
I’m speaking about income tax only - our tax scales range from 30 to 60%, and you don’t have to be a millionaire to reach the top bracket. Sales tax is 19% over here. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/195 "2003-02-02T14:40:34Z")
Fuck 'em, is what I say. We just had seven human beings sacrifice themselves in the war against ignorance. One of whom wasn’t even American, one American who _wasn’t even born an American_, and another American who was most likely descended from slaves. Anyone care to pretend for a moment that if Saddam had the same technology at his disposal as the Us that he’d use it to send a Kurd into space? The US has had the technology to wipe out all life on the face of the Earth since 1945, but we’ve only used it twice. Both times in the same war and long before we understood the full implications of what it was we were doing. Since then, we’ve done some stupid things, but we’ve not used a nuclear weapon against human being since. We’ve even worked to help limit the spread of nuclear weapons. The knowledge that’s been gained thanks to the space program has been freely shared with the entire world. No one using the technology developed by the US space program has had to pay the price that the US has, in either lives or dollars. Even those who hate us with a passion have benefitted from our technological developments. How many other nations would be so generous as the US? Even the Iraqis will one day benefit from the loss of _Columbia_. We’re so far up on the moral high ground in comparison to ass hymens like Saddam that there’s nothing they could do to raise themselves up to our level. They’re merely sinners in the hands of an angry God, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/196 "2003-02-02T15:49:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*…The knowledge that’s been gained thanks to the space program has been freely shared with the entire world. No one using the technology developed by the US space program has had to pay the price that the US has, in either lives or dollars. > > Even those who hate us with a passion have benefitted from our technological developments. How many other nations would be so generous as the US? Even the Iraqis will one day benefit from the loss of _Columbia_. We’re so far up on the moral high ground in comparison to ass hymens like Saddam that there’s nothing they could do to raise themselves up to our level. They’re merely sinners in the hands of an angry God, IMHO. \*\* The above is but one example of the misguided reasoning that fuels much of the hatred we see in the world – and not just today, but all throught history. See, contrary to what you might like believe, America is essentially no different than any other empire that preceded it. American foreign policy, just like that of past empires, is largely driven by its own self-interest and not some sense of altruism and the overall benefit of humanity as some of you seem to think. Sure, America’s hardly alone in doing this, in fact, just about every country in the world follows suit, the only real diffrence being the extent of their influence. While yours is great and foremost in the world pecking order, tiny countries like Andorra and Barbados are essentially doing the same thing. Further, and I hope this doesn’t come as news to anyone, there are ruling classes in all countries, and as is wont to happen with these things (that pesky ‘human nature’ thing again), they usually place _their_ interest above those of the less fortunate. Sure, and this goes back to **Spiny Norman’s** post upthread, just as there are assholes in every country, there are also genuinely caring, well-meaning, honest and all-around good people. But no one nation has exclusive rights on either franchise. So, are you _personally_, and I quote, really “so far up on the moral high ground in comparison to ass hymens like Saddam that there’s nothing they could do to raise themselves up to our level”? Because the message I am getting from the overall tone of your post is that you’re acting _exactly_ as hatefully intolerant as those you wish to condemn. Fuk 'hem, you say? Well, right back at you then, **fuck you** and everyone else who thinks like you. Which obviously includes your Resident warmogerer. BTW, congrats for showing such great restraint in witholding the use of nuclear weapons since WWII. But according to that logic, we should extend our unending gratitude to quite a number of other countries who _never used them to begin with_. To say nothing of those that flat out refuse to build them. > [@](#): > > **Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it"** Truer words were never spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/197 "2003-02-02T17:27:03Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t see that the US uses coercion in a manner like some of those that have threatened our securities. Almost 3,000 innocent people died on 9-11, they weren’t soldiers in an army, they were innocent men, women and YES, children going about their lives when 11 men decided to take their fate into their hands. If that’s not evil, then I have no idea how you classify that. I can’t believe the idiocy of this whole paragraph. My friend war is the ultimate coercion. 3.000 innocent people died on 9-11? Yes. I can assure you that Osama wanted to kill at least 173.000 thousands. Unfortunatelly the 8th air fleet was unavailable and he had to use a couple of jumbos. I can’t believe your stupidity, you are about to use “saturation bombardments” in Irak and you are complaining about the terrorists. Again they would be more than happy to use your modern weapons, unfortunately (for you) they don’t have it so they have to use a cruder method depriving you of your honor. After all it’s not the same when 11 dirty arabs murder civilians than when 2 “knights in shining armour” (pilots) do the same. And for the record there are also innocent man woman and YES children in Afghanistan and Irak. Asshole > [@](#): > > And I stand with Castro and his Dictatorship…Yes, the US has financial sanctions against him but we don’t and haven’t “attacked” to free the people of their dictatorship. Hell we have been living with Castro for three decades and I haven’t seen a US invasion that I recall in recent memory. I think this is clear along the lines that the US tries to stay out of conflict as much as it can. It sanctions those that are against human rights, but that’s not a bad thing in my view. I hope this is another fucking joke. “I don’t recall an invasion in recent memory”, God you make my heart all warm. And regarding your last sentence can you provide a CITE with the latest sanctions against China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan, etc. > [@](#): > > I could much use my “taxes” to feed me and my animals but you see I owe taxes every damn year that goes to some Egyptian or Columbian or Mexican when I am eating shit for food. Shit that makes me fat and I am fat now…I can’t afford decent food because of the fucking taxes taking from me. You could excercise you fat bitch. I am sorry to you all, if you check my last post in this thread I was still in my senses. Today is a sad day not just for americans or israelis, the moment those 7 men and WOMEN left our frontier (the atmosphere) all those stupid labels of nationality, religion or race cease to have any meaning at all. They were envoys to the stars (sorry I am sci-fi geek), and they died in the most noble and important war, the war to acquire knowledge, to fight ignorance. It is shamefull that a thread like this exists in place that claims to be fighting it. Those 7 were casualties in a fight that someday we will win. Socrates identified virtue with knowledge, for him all evil comes from ignorance. The consequence: a wise man will never do wrong. I know that many philosophers have argued that Socrates is mistaken, that things are more comlicated than that. I don’t care, some chooses to believe that bread and wine turns into the blood and flesh of christ, some that they are the chosen people. I believe in this and for that those 7 are martyrs of my faith and this thread a heresy. I hope a moderator realizes this and burn it to cinders. “En vano, pues soy espíritu, Darás, muerte, el golpe fiero; Espíritu es Dios, y espero Que en su seno he de vivir”. ``` Silvio Pellico (Italy 1789-1854) (I couldn't find better words, I apologize) ``` ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/198 "2003-02-02T18:49:06Z")
Hey, asshole (that’s you, Estilicon)! Got any proof that this country’s planning on using saturation bombing as opposed to targettling only military targets? Thought not. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/199 "2003-02-02T19:05:00Z")
Back to the OP, I’d imagine your average Iraqi makes his judgements based on far different information than you or I enjoy. Mis media is government fed and hardly reflects an open viewpoint, much less the facts. Who knows if they realize these were men and women, black, white and asian, and that they were there for scientific research that would someday, hopefully, benefit humanity. His country doesn’t even have a frikkin’ plane in the sky because of his leader, much less a space program, and my guess would be he considers all astronauts up there for military purposes. His callous indifference toward the lives of the astronauts lost is dispicable on a moral level but I can’t say I’m very surprised by it. Let’s liberate him and his countrymen so they can return to decency and the 21st century. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/200 "2003-02-02T19:33:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Estilicon \* > **You could excercise you fat bitch.** Who is the asshole? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148.md?page=11)