# We are happy \[the Space Shuttle\] broke up." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148 "2003-02-01T19:45:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/221 "2003-02-02T22:16:04Z")
You’re the one who asserted that since CNN would be televising the war from front to back, therefore, any concern that the US would say, carpet bomb civilians, was unwarrented. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/222 "2003-02-02T22:20:10Z")
I recently read an article in the New York Times by Ian Fischer reporting from Bagdag. He reported pretty much all Iraqis were friendly to him and treated him well while at the same time vowing to fight the US with all their means. He did not find animosity directed personally against him. It seems the Iraqis hate the government of the USA, not individual Americans. I would say the reciprocal is just as true. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/223 "2003-02-02T22:24:06Z")
No, what I thought was that Estilicon’s **conjecture** that the US would carpet bomb civilians was unwarrented. I know America-bashing is seen as high entertainment in some quarters, but when it gets to the level of condemnation of things we haven’t, and are not planning, to do, it becomes rediculous. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/224 "2003-02-02T22:26:43Z")
you offered it as proof that his concerns were unwarrented. You seem to have backed off that now. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/225 "2003-02-02T22:27:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnnyIsGood \* > \*\*Thanks but I don’t think that’s what she meant at all. Redundant would be saying “divine god”, for example. Besides, wouldn’t that make Santa Claus universaly “redundant”? \*\* I think it goes like this: A) I’m an atheist. I don’t believe in any gods. B) what gods? A) exactly. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/226 "2003-02-02T22:35:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*you offered it as proof that his concerns were unwarrented. You seem to have backed off that now. \*\* He can have all the concerns he likes, it’s the pre-judgement I disagree with. As in, those evil republican american capitalists are gonna carpet bomb Iraqi civilians, yes they are. How would he know? Unless he’s secretly Miss Cleo? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/227 "2003-02-02T22:44:47Z")
look. You weaseled your way out of the “show me even one picture of an American burning an IRaqi or Iranian flag” debacle, you’re not weaseling out of this one. YOu asserted there **would** be nothing to fear that the US couldn’t hide anything 'cause “CNN would be televising it front to back” even _with_ a ‘news black out’. and of course, as soon I questioned your apparent belief that a news black out of the war effort wouldn’t actually prevent **real** news from coming out, you twisted and turned and tryed to get me to front out what I thought that the US would be hiding or why they should give out sensative material etc. You. were the one to suggest that the US wouldn’t be able to hide anything since CNN et al would be there. THis does not necessitate that I believe or can demonstrate that the US will need to hide anything certainly doesn’t need me to prove what’s going on in the future. YOu did that for us. and, of course, even being a US citizen arressted on US soil does not apparently guarentee that your constitutional rights to a lawyer, to be either charged or released , right to a speedy trial, to hear the charges against you etc. will be honored. So, no, I don’t particularly trust that the current administration won’t have ‘something they want hidden’, nor that they won’t use extraordinary measures to keep said things hidden. Even with CNN. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/228 "2003-02-02T22:58:31Z")
I guess we just disagree then. Esti said that the US planned to carpet bomb Iraqi civilians, I pointed out that his assertation was incorrect. In fact, we are planning something quite different. He, and you apparently, are pre-judging American actions. Have fun and all, but the phrase “rush to judgement” comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/229 "2003-02-02T23:12:15Z")
One wonders why you even made the comment then about CNN, if your point was that the US wouldn’t do such things. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/230 "2003-02-02T23:18:13Z")
I don’t know what the US will or will not do. If it comes to war, though, it won’t be in secrecy. Like I said, it will be front-page, breaking-news, coverage. You can criticize then, but to do so beforehand seems disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/231 "2003-02-02T23:24:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*I don’t know what the US will or will not do. If it comes to war, though, it won’t be in secrecy. Like I said, it will be front-page, breaking-news, coverage. \*\* which gets you right back into the problem. You’ve admitted that CNN et al will **not** have unfettered access. You assume that if anything bad happens that it will find it’s way to the news sources, even with a black out. heard much about the guys down at Gitmo? do you even know how many there are?? if any have been sent home? if any have been identified? Yep, front page news. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/232 "2003-02-02T23:28:52Z")
If I have learned but one thing from this thread, then it is that **milroyj** is a bit of a fool. > [@](#): > > **Press blackout or no, the Gulf War was on CNN in its entirety, from start to finish. Any reason to believe that won’t be the case this time around?** Have you lost your mind? Have you ever used it? Do you not realise that what you saw on CNN was the bits of the Gulf War that the US military (I’m not even saying ‘government’ here) _allowed_ you to see? Have you seen anything from the 10-years-removed perspective telling you that the patriot missliles didn’t actually work? Do you know about the Hill & Knowlton “Kuwaiti incubator babies” farrago? Did you know that (pre-internet) other national media were reporting shit that the US was not party to? That even they were prohibited from reporting bits that were controlled by the US military? **milroyj** , have a wee look around, and maybe even a little think. Not everything you’re told by your media is correct. Not everything is reported. Read between the lines. [Here’s some non-CNN news for you](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2371349.stm); you may have missed it. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/233 "2003-02-02T23:32:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*which gets you right back into the problem. You’ve admitted that CNN et al will **not** have unfettered access. You assume that if anything bad happens that it will find it’s way to the news sources, even with a black out. > > heard much about the guys down at Gitmo? do you even know how many there are?? if any have been sent home? if any have been identified? > > Yep, front page news. \*\* Why are you assuming that anything bad will happen? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/234 "2003-02-02T23:33:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*[Here’s some non-CNN news for you](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2371349.stm); you may have missed it. \*\* Why should I believe that leftist rag, anyway? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/235 "2003-02-02T23:35:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Why should I believe that leftist rag, anyway? 😛 \*\* I’m presuming that by “leftist” you mean “unbiased”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/236 "2003-02-02T23:36:18Z")
why are you assuming that CNN et al will have access to all relevant info? I can demonstrate that they don’t. why do I think there may be stuff the US won’t want to release? well, gosh, I already mentioned that there’s the US citizen arrested on US soil who’s been held w/o charges, w/o access to his attorney for several months. and the US attorney is arguing that it’s perfectly fine, there’s nothing to worry about. for one. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/237 "2003-02-02T23:36:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **heard much about the guys down at Gitmo? do you even know how many there are?? if any have been sent home? if any have been identified?** Why would you care? They are enemy combatants. 3,000 people were killed. These pig-fuckers supported them. I guess you want to go and put daisies in gun barrels, too. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/238 "2003-02-02T23:38:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Why would you care? They are enemy combatants. 3,000 people were killed. These pig-fuckers supported them. I guess you want to go and put daisies in gun barrels, too. \*\* and you know this, how??? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/239 "2003-02-02T23:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*I’m presuming that by “leftist” you mean “unbiased”. 😛 \*\* The idea that the BBC is “unbiased” is laughable at best. How was their reporting on your Troubles if I can ask? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/240 "2003-02-02T23:41:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*and you know this, how??? \*\* Because they were captured in Afghanistan, during the war? Kind of the definition, they were caught fighting American/Coalition Forces. Hence enemies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148.md?page=13)