# We are happy \[the Space Shuttle\] broke up." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148 "2003-02-01T19:45:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/101 "2003-02-02T01:43:19Z")
I guess they did. Are Americans currently dancing in the streets over the prospect of war in Iraq? Are they dancing in the street every time a Palestinian is killed? Are they dancing in the street about AIDS deaths in Africa? No! So why the fuck are Iraqis and Palestinians dancing over our misfourtunes? ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/102 "2003-02-02T01:43:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*A cite from 1980, 23 freaking years ago, is relevant how? \*\* > [@](#): > > Show me one photo of Americans burning Iraqi or Iranian flags, chanting Death to Iraq/Iran. Show me one. Are you going to whine everytime someone provides the information you asked for? Because if you are, I’d suggest taking your toys out of the sandbox and going home. How is it relevant? Back in 1980, we felt the same way about Iran as we do about Iraq. They posed the greatest threat to our national security at the time. But I guess since we didn’t ship a couple hundred thousand troops to the region to overwhelm them at the time, in your skewed reasoning, this does not relate. I guess since W isn’t ranting on and on about Iran, threatening them with this, telling them we’re going to do that, training more than sufficient amounts of military hardware and ordnance on Tehran, it’s not relevent… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/103 "2003-02-02T01:43:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*A cite from 1980, 23 freaking years ago, is relevant how? \*\* Actually it’s very relevent to the current discussion. Does this make it right or wrong? Yes, there is an issue at hand here and that is perfectly germaine to this discussion. US Citizens, have in the past, burned the Iran flag which happens to be a muslim based country. I do view it, even what happened 23 years, as wrong my my own eyes. It also is a lesson that we can’t poopoo the history that is doomed to repeat itself unless we, as a nation and a world, remind ourselves of past wrongs. Wishing death upon those we disagree with, promoting that with flag burning and pictures of world leaders pasted on dummies and trampling them to death is a very scary thing to do. It has happened in the US and hopefully we have learned from that. ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/104 "2003-02-02T01:44:33Z")
I don’t know about all of this political arguing–it’s an argument that’s going to shed much heat but little light. What I do know is that we as a species suffered a loss today. 7 explorers died, and when they looked down at the planet while they were in orbit they couldn’t see the political lines that y’all are arguing so fiercely about. It just seems to…cheapen I guess is the word I’m looking for…their sacrifice to engage in arguments like this. I first read this beautiful poem when the Challenger blew up (it was written by a pilot who died during WWII) and it is unfortunately appropriate in this situation too. Read it, and then think about how y’all are treating each other here. THIS is what the shuttle was about, NOT demonizing other humans whatever their religious, national or ethnic persuasion. High Flight (John Gillespie Magee, Jr.) Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there, I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung My eager craft through footless halls of air Up, up the long, delirious burning blue I’ve topped the windswept heights with easy grace Where never lark, or even eagle flew. And, while with silent, lifting mind I’ve trod The high untrespassed sanctity of space, Put out my hand, and touched the face of God. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/105 "2003-02-02T01:49:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kambuckta \* > \*\ ***milroyj** , you are the one who maintains that ALL Iraqis hate Americans and rejoice in her misfortunes, while NO American would ever stoop to such lows. Through such blatant ignorance, it is you attempting to legitimise hatred. Pot/kettle and all of that perhaps? \*\* Wrong again, I never said that ALL Iraqis did anything, let alone hate Americans. Erek was trying to legitimise hated, by saying that Muslims and Arabs have a legitimate reason to hate Americans. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/106 "2003-02-02T01:50:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Really? Show me one example of Americans “cheering in celebration” over Iraqi deaths. One celebration. During Desert Storm my ex-stepdad used to wear a shirt that said “I’d fly 10,000 miles to smoke a camel.” and it pictured a camel in crosshairs. He received a great deal of compliments on it. Face it, the human race can be cruel. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/107 "2003-02-02T01:53:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Really? Show me one example of Americans “cheering in celebration” over Iraqi deaths. One celebration. > > If there are many more people in the ME who are mourning with us, why have we not heard from them? \*\* So just what _were_ you trying to say here? Maybe I’ve missed something, but alas, I really don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/108 "2003-02-02T01:56:54Z")
posted by milroyj > [@](#): > > No, actually, I’m fucking serious. Show me one news story about Americans celebrating Iraqi deaths. Or one picture of Americans dancing in the streets about Muslim deaths, like some Palestinians did after 9/11. I don’t have a picture, but it seems to me that in dubya’s SOTU address he used the phrase “They won’t bother us anymore” with regards to dead Al Qaeda operatives. Sounds a bit gloaty to me. While it’s not dancy, I think it fits. Also, do you honestly think that the american media is going to show pictures of americans prancing around an effigy of a dead iraqi/iranian? Another fun example. Anybody remeber the anti-asian sentiment in the mid-eighties because we were losing auto jobs because more people were buying asian cars as opposed to americans. There was a big deal because downtown somebody painted a honda with japanese flags and everyone went down and beat it with sledge hammers. Oh, a good time was had by all. Sort of an effingy by proxy (if that makes any sense). Lastly, mswas has a point. He wasn’t trying to excuse their behavior, but quite a few americans (quite a few in power) walk around with a funny little belief that we are right simply because we are americans and the last remaining “super power.” Most arabs dislike us because of our support for the decidedly non-democratic Saudi regime and our support for Israel who seens to feel it necessary to assasinate palestinian undesirables using a helicopter gunships in public places with children around. Then there is the small matter of the continued sanctions against Iraq which weaken only the Iraqi people and do nothing to harm those in power. Aren’t we special? **THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT I CONDONE THE BEHAVIOUR OF TERRORISTS OR THE IDIOT MONKEYS IN IRAQ SHOOTING THEIR MOUTHS OFF!!!** Neither (I think) does mswas. But lets face it, we’ve done shit all to keep them from hating us or to get them to support us and contain the extremists. ---
**Author:** ![Yumanite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@Yumanite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumanite)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/109 "2003-02-02T01:57:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Estilicon \* > \*\* > Personaly those 7 men are my personal heroes. \*\* I agree with your sentiments, but I just wanted to remind you that some of those “men” were women. In the interest of fighting ignorance, you know. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/110 "2003-02-02T01:57:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mswas \* > **I never said people dancing in the streets when the Columbia exploded was appropriate, but acting as though Americans don’t do similar things is silly at best.** I’ll ask again, one cite about Americans dancing in the streets about fucking anything? The last time I can recall might have been when the troops came back from WWII. You know, when they saved the fucking world? Sorry for the hyperbole, but it’s true. And yet, Palestinians danced on 9/11. Iraq is gloating over the deaths of American astronauts. This is ok, how? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/111 "2003-02-02T02:02:39Z")
milroyj: Alas, since I can’t come up with something as narrow as dancing in the streets for you, you’re going to have to be satisfied in being right, as a picture of Americans burning an Iranian flag, a T-shirt about flying 10,000 miles to smoke a camel and Americans killing middle eastern looking people are not comparable to dancing in the streets. So milroyj I have to concede and say you’re correct in that I can’t come up with evidence of Americans dancing in the streets. So you’re correct, Americans would never do such a thing. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/112 "2003-02-02T02:04:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Uh, Johnny…? > > Are you aware that Col. Ramon is one of the guys who did the actual bombing of the Iraqi nuke plant? So he actually DID attack Iraq at one point. And there is a connection, however thin. That’s pretty fucking thin. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/113 "2003-02-02T02:05:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Is Yasser Arafat Arab enough for you? > > I hope Cheney showered this morning. Happy sucking. > > Not to single you out completely, **gobear** , but these “All Arabs Hate Americans”-shit pisses me off. Firstly, it’s not true. Secondly, even though large anti-American sentiments can be found in many countries in the Middle East, they always appear in nations that are under (semi) dictatorial regimes, with media systems to match. You can’t compare the opinion of the average Iraqi to that of the average American, for the simple reason that the Iraqi has been fed pure spin and propaganda all his life, whereas the American has been able to choose his news sources and leaders freely. > > Well, at least the American will see _less_ propaganda than the Iraqi. I’m not going to suggest the main US news sources are up to my standards of impartiality. > > In any case, generalisations like the ones above don’t make you look like the American that chose his sources wisely, and came up with a balanced opinion. It makes you look like you’re foaming at the mouth whenever the word “Arab” or “Middle East” crosses your eye. Not a whole lot better than an Iraqi car mechanic cheering for the loss of the Shuttle, actually. \*\* Exactly right, **Coldfire**. The problem is that some Americans, while trumpeting (correctly) their country’s wealth, military superiority and general global importance, also feel the need to portray themselves as the poor, downtrodden, put-upon, unappreciated, misunderstood philanthropists of the world. “Oh, woe,” they cry, “everyone hates us poor Americans, and what have we ever done to deserve it?” Parroting this line serves to direct anger outwards and to prevent a healthy level of introspection. Fortunately, many (and probably most) Americans are not quite as thin-skinned and one-dimensional, and are willing to concede the complexity of global politics rather than caving in to reductionist stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/114 "2003-02-02T02:06:02Z")
No one is saying that, that sort of hatred is ok, but the best hope we have for doing ANYTHING about THEIR hatred is work on ours first, because otherwise we won’t do anything about theirs. We hate them as illegitimately as they hate us. Erek ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/115 "2003-02-02T02:06:59Z")
At last, a semi-honest answer. Why do you hate Americans, since you are one yourself, btw? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/116 "2003-02-02T02:08:17Z")
Ok, let me rephrase that. Our hatred is just as unjustified as theirs. Let me take back what I said earlier, they don’t have legitimate reasons to hate us, but they do have legitimate reasons to want to attack us, and to remove us from their realm. In otherwords, we both have legitimate reasons for the fear, and IMO America, as the more powerful of the two parties, has the onus to make the first step toward de-escalation. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/117 "2003-02-02T02:08:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kambuckta \* > So just what _were_ you trying to say here? Don’t bother arguing with **milroyj** , he has some sort of learning disorder that makes him unable to grasp valid arguments. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by milroyj_ > Show me one example of Americans “cheering in celebration” over Iraqi deaths. One celebration. I can give you dozens of examples from kids back in junior high last time we fought them. And go to a bar when the fightig starts this time and is on TV, i bet some drunk idiots will be cheering. And where were you war mongers in 2000? 1999? 1998? 1997? 1996? 1995? 1994? 1993? 1992? probably jacking off to pictures of Ronald Reagan and complaining about Bubba. You are a bunch of fucking ignorant hypocrites who suddenly have compassion for the Iraqi people since it is a valid excuse to attack those brown people since Osama is MIA. Al- Qaeda’s ranks will swell by the thousands and many more will die. But **milroyj** just sees the oppertunity to bomb people back into the stone age and by some warped logic that will make them love us. If i lived in a country where America bombed our water plant and left the crazy guy in charge, i wouldn’t be too happy with them either. Fighting this time has a good chance of being much much worse with urban combat. But everyone just thinks we’ll drop a few bombs and the whole army will surrender to CBS. Not everyone will surrender. people will die. And **milroyj** and others like him will suddenly start being concerned about the Iranian people… ---
**Author:** ![Paper\_Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9de053/32.png) [@Paper\_Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paper_Geek)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/118 "2003-02-02T02:10:01Z")
I’ve never seen dancing in the streets related to anything except substance abuse here in America. I would, however, like to point out that we had a rash of assaults, racism, and severe vandalism against Mid-Easterners and their property after 9/11. Including people from India and other countries that are not generally considered hotbeds of terrorism. I would be SHOCKED if you couldn’t find references to these assaults in any news magazine or newspaper from that time in ANY city of any real size. It may have been worse here due to it being a college town, but it was not something one could miss, even if one never watched the news. A large number of Americans are uninformed, opinionated people. I would imagine other countries also have a mass of uninformed, opinionated people, but cannot be absolutely certain of any other country. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/119 "2003-02-02T02:10:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > Fortunately, many (and probably most) Americans are not quite as thin-skinned and one-dimensional, and are willing to concede the complexity of global politics rather than caving in to reductionist stereotypes. Unfortunately, I’m not so sure I believe this is the case. Though I think that there is a healthy minority willing to concede that. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148/120 "2003-02-02T02:11:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*I’ll ask again, one cite about Americans dancing in the streets about fucking anything? The last time I can recall might have been when the troops came back from WWII. You know, when they saved the fucking world? Sorry for the hyperbole, but it’s true. > \*\* Throw us a bone, dipshit. What sort of dance specifically are you looking for? Waltz? Cha Cha? Foxtrot? It seems that, as **mswas** pointed out, every one of the numerous examples pointed out to you are not good enough for you. I’m sure we cheered when we dropped The Bombs, I’m sure we made fun of N Korea in the 50’s, I’m sure we ridiculed the N Vietnamese in the 60’s, I know Mickey Mouse flipped Iran the bird in the 70’s, etc, etc, etc. Grow the fuck up!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/we-are-happy-the-space-shuttle-broke-up/152148.md?page=7)